Is baptism essential unto salvation?

[Steve Epley]

ALL mankind's sins are forgiven by Calvary's atonement then man is lost because he either rejects or neglects it's pardon.

So your argument applies to you as well as to me so I don't understand the question?

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

ALL mankind's sins are forgiven by Calvary's atonement then man is lost because he either rejects or neglects it's pardon.

So your argument applies to you as well as to me so I don't understand the question?

There was no "atonement" at Calvary. That would reduce the blood of Jesus to that of bulls and goats. Sins were remitted at Calvary.

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

ALL mankind's sins are forgiven by Calvary's atonement then man is lost because he either rejects or neglects it's pardon.

So your argument applies to you as well as to me so I don't understand the question?

So, would you say that man is condemned, not because of those sins already remitted, but simply because he does not believe?

John 3:18

John 3:36

John 16:8-9

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

There was no "atonement" at Calvary. That would reduce the blood of Jesus to that of bulls and goats. Sins were remitted at Calvary.

Sins were remitted at Calvary for ALL mankind that is NOT the argument! The argument is where they are PERSONALLY accepted.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Adino

So, would you say that man is condemned, not because of those sins already remitted, but simply because he does not believe?John 3:18John 3:36John 16:8-9

Man believes WHEN he obeys the gospel.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Adino

That wasn't the question.... but we're getting there

I'll ask it again.

Is the person who has not yet "received remission" of those sins imputed to Christ still condemned by those sins which no longer exist in God's eyes?

Yes or No?

I'm trying to understand your question..... are you saying that those sins 'no longer exist' because they are forgiven when you repent?

[Aquila]

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the question I just posed to Steve:

Are the sins of a man that have been historically imputed to Christ and declared to be historically remitted by the resurrection considered remitted/removed/gone forever, in the eyes of God, before that man is baptized?

Yes or No?

If the man’s sins were considered remitted/removed/gone at Calvary… man doesn’t even need to believe to experience salvation. So I must say that maybe I’m not understanding your premise.

I see it like this. Christ’s death satisfied the Law’s requirements for salvation. The wages of sin is death, Christ died in the place of all who come to him. Therefore, until one comes to Christ in faith that sacrifice doesn’t apply to them. When one comes to Christ in faith and repents of their sins (turns from their sins) they are “justified” (Romans 5:1). Justification exists as long as one has faith in Christ Jesus. However, justification doesn’t equal forgiveness (remission). Justified means “to be made just”, this “being made just” is for the express purpose of allowing one to come forward to receive the remission of their sins. This grants us audience with God. God requires that we be baptized if we want our sins remitted. If we resist, we will pay for our sins.

For example,

A wanted criminal cannot just barge into the court of the King and claim pardon. They have to make a formal request for pardon and audience with the King. The King might accept that request and allow them to come forward into the court before him, this justifies them to enter the court. Now, once before the King, the King may issue restitution or an act of service in conjunction with the pardon. Repentance get’s us before our King. Once before him, our King says, “Be water baptized, taking upon yourself the likeness of my burial… then you will receive remission (pardon).”

So I believe that repentance qualifies one for the remission received at baptism. Both are absolutely essential.

Many repent and get God’s attention, and receive his blessings. However, few move into obeying him. At the very best, if a person refuses to be water baptized as Scripture commands they are in rebellion and have backslidden from repentance.

[El Predicador]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Sins were remitted at Calvary for ALL mankind that is NOT the argument! The argument is where they are PERSONALLY accepted.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Man believes WHEN he obeys the gospel.

Preach it.

To believe any other way is to accept a Universalist world view.

The sacrifice has been made, but the pardon still must be accepted, else everyone's sins are remitted and they are in right standing with God BEFORE repentance.

The fact of Calvary, and even belief that Jesus was God incarnate in the flesh is not enough.

Even the devils believe and tremble.

The application of the blood from the universal concept of the sin of mankind, to the individual sinner requires repentance and total acceptance of the Lordship of Jesus Christ in that individual's life.

[KWSS1976]

EL Predicador the devil can even speak in tongues but that don't stop you guys from doing it so would yall please stop using the(even the devil believes thing.....)

This saying does not validate anything.....Even the devils believe and tremble

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by El Predicador

Preach it.

To believe any other way is to accept a Universalist world view.

The sacrifice has been made, but the pardon still must be accepted, else everyone's sins are remitted and they are in right standing with God BEFORE repentance.

The fact of Calvary, and even belief that Jesus was God incarnate in the flesh is not enough.

Even the devils believe and tremble.

The application of the blood from the universal concept of the sin of mankind, to the individual sinner requires repentance and total acceptance of the Lordship of Jesus Christ in that individual's life.

True by obeying the gospel message of Acts 2:38.