Is baptism essential unto salvation? - Page 36

clgustaveson · #**351** 06-13-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HopePreacher

Who did Peter command? did he command those that God had already accepted (v47) to be baptized, or was he commanding those Jews who were with him that were apparently balking at accepting the Gentiles?

I believe Peter was addressing the Jews who came with him based upon the statement/question he asked of them, "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?" (v47). It was the Jews he was commanding and he was telling them they needed to get over it and baptize these Gentiles.

Why would he command them if it wasn't necessary?

Aquila · #**352** 06-13-2009, 09:53 PM

Let's assume that water baptism isn't "essential for salvation".

This would mean that God forgives and saves a repentant believer at the moment of repentance. Now, let's not forget that water baptism is a command in Scripture. This would mean that the moment that believer chooses to attend a church that doesn't practice baptism, or flat out refuses to be baptized, they are in rebellion in regards to a clear command of Scripture. This means they are now backslidden at best. They never moved forward into obedience. Just like person that repents at the altar on a Sunday night and goes home only to continue living in sin with a person who isn't their spouse. Obedience is essential. Lack of obedience demonstrates that a person doesn't have saving faith.

If water baptism is a command - it is essential no matter how you cut it... even if God forgives and initially saves a person at repentance.

HopePreacher · #**353** 06-13-2009, 10:04 PM

The point I was making is that he was not commanding that household of Cornelius submit to baptism he was commanding that the Jews who were with him accept the Gentiles and baptize them.

There was no problem with the Gentiles who were just baptized in the HS to go on to baptism - they would stand on their head in the corner if they were asked to, just like anyone who is freshly baptized with HS - However, those Jews who were steeped in the tradition of Jewish exclusivism needed convincing to accept the Gentiles.

In fact, the emphasis on this baptism was not the effect it had on the Gentiles but the effect it had on the Jewish believers. Peter not only argued the point here but he also argued in front of the elders in chapter 11:17-18, "If God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who beleided in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?" When they heard this they had no further objections and praised God.

Peter's argument was real simple: If God has accepted them, then why shouldn't we accept them? So he ordered those who were with him to baptize them.

Falla39 · #**354** 06-13-2009, 10:12 PM

Something I thought about recently in reading all the different views on the plan of
salvation.
Before a children is born, there is a prep...a ration stage before the child comes forth
from the womb. The mother is cleansed, and prior to the baby coming forth, there is a burst of water and blood and the baby comes forth. It has been born.
Now in being born again, the cleansing could represent repentance, and the water
and blood (from Jesus' side came forth water AND blood. Then the Holy Ghost could
be represented when the "newborn" gives a certain sound. A sound of life.

There is the stage of preparation. If this represents repentance, the mother got prepared
or cleaned up BUT there was no birth. No water or Spirit.

Just some thoughts from a Mother in Zion.

Falla39

Hoovie · #**355** 06-13-2009, 11:15 PM

Though I believe one can be saved prior to water baptism, I agree with Aquila - if one rejects baptism in water he is in rebellion to scripture.

Aquila · #**356** 06-13-2009, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

I know I have just been sitting back and watching this argument progress but this question is not the point!

The question is not whether or not some statement has been construed to mean we should water baptize... the real settling question is whether it is essential unto salvation... if it is then we must be commanded to do so or parish.

I think all this arguing over whether it is right or wrong or even whether it is a good thing or not has nothing to do with the underlying issue because at the end of the day Jesus commanding individuals to baptize with water doesn't mean that is an essential component of salvation.

Is water baptism something commanded in Scripture? Yes or no?

A one word answer please.

Aquila · #**357** 06-13-2009, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Though I believe one can be saved prior to water baptism, I agree with Aquila - if one rejects baptism in water he is in rebellion to scripture.

Amen.

Falla39 · #**358** 06-13-2009, 11:38 PM

Why take a chance! The Bible speaks in Acts 2: 41, of those that gladly received his words were baptized. In my 51 yrs of having the Holy Ghost, I don't remember ever hearing of so much squabbling about whether you have to or what. And it's not the non-pentecostal people doing it. It seems to be the ones who should know better. There is something really bad wrong.

I do not mean that in an offensive way but it is disturbing.

Falla39

Hoovie · #**359** 06-13-2009, 11:44 PM

The good news is... there is only a very small sliver of Christianity that does not teach and practice water baptism.

clgustaveson · #**360** 06-14-2009, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Is water baptism something commanded in Scripture? Yes or no?

A one word answer please.

The question is rather vague and an answer would illicit an assumption I think is unfair to make...

Simply because the scripture says individuals were commanded to be baptize does not mean we are all commissioned to obey the same command. The command does not say " to be saved" or "in order to be saved" or even "as a part of salvation" I command you to be baptized...

Simply saying water baptism is command is missing the entire thesis of my question... Is baptism essential to be saved?

Don't play a game of cat and mouse with words, as I have shown I have not found scripture convincing enough to sway me either way but I sure won't risk my salvation by not being baptized and in the same light I wont risk it by telling people they are damned to hell with out it... you can have that on your hands if you like but do you really want to risk your salvation over judging the works of God hinging your own judgment upon semantics?

God bless you, but I am not so bold as you, I find myself being a little more conservative in my interpretation of God's word.