Is baptism essential unto salvation?

[Adino]

Luke2447,

Do you now agree that the blood of Christ is NOT applied to our sins in baptism?

If you do not, then the questions to Steve in post #500 are relevant to you as well.

God bless

[Adino]

Does everyone here concede that the blood of Christ is NOT applied to our sins in baptism?

[Adino]

Is there anyone here who still believes the blood of Christ is applied to our sins in baptism?

[Scott Hutchinson]

While there is no virtue in H2O and something one human does to another does not bring forgiveness of sin.MARK 16:16 does stress the importance of baptism and it's importance although natural water cannot bring regeneration.
After one repents and places personal faith in Jesus Christ,water baptism is a necessary step in following The Lord,as we are to be buried with Him in baptism.

[Falla39]

Over 20 yrs. ago, after hearing the question by a "minister" as to when the blood
was applied, I asked my late pastor father about this. He said this was an old question
that from time to time was brought up, usually by someone trying to stir up strife.
He said the Blood was spilled at the alter of sacrifice, and was applied all the way
from this first alter, to the alter of incense, and after the priest had prepared himself,
took the Blood into the Holy Place. We can now go for ourselves into the Holy Place
and into the Holy of Holies or the MOST Holy Place.
After He had finished (and HE said it was finished), Jesus went to the Father and
submitted himself (as the Son to The Father) and sat down. Expecting until....

He prayed, He prayed.
Jesus prayed unto the Father every day.
From the manager to the cross,
Not a moments time was lost,
Jesus prayed unto the Father all the way.

Jesus finished the work the Father sent him to do, and went back to the Father.
The Son did the work as a MAN that the Father could not do as a SPIRIT.
GOD is a Spirit. They that worship HIM MUST worship Him in Spirit and in
Truth. Father IN Son reconciling the world through one body.

Without the shedding of BLOOD, there could be no REMISSION of sins. The
tabernacleplan is a type of the plan of salvation under the New Covenant. The
new covenant God would make with Israel with better promises, a new and living
way. A New and Living Way that would take us into the very Presence of THE
LIVING GOD!! A New Covenant that would bring in a NEW and LIVING WAY. THE
NEW Israel of GOD! Old things are passed away, behold all things are (being) made
NEW! If any man be IN Christ, he is a new creature (part of a new creation). For
as many as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. (robed in HIM).
HIS Righteousness. He said "their righteousness shall be of me".

Gal.3:25-29,
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Who would not want to be a part of this New and Living Way. The Highway
of Holiness. That is the STREET OF GOLD in Revelation. There's only one WAY
and it leads into the very Presence of the LAMB, slain from the foundation of
the world.

These are my thoughts.

Falla39

[Adino]

Falla39,

Thank you for your thoughts.

Our sins were imputed to Christ and they were, of necessity, removed BEFORE the resurrection (else Christ would not have been raised because our sins were held against him). Thus, as far as the sin imputed to Christ is concerned, it is a matter of history, proven by the resurrection, that the blood has already been applied and effected the removal of our sins in the eyes of God.

Christ would not have been resurrected if those sins imputed to him had not been removed forever from before the eyes of God.

Do you believe in the historic sin remission of the Cross or are you saying the blood applied to our sin imputed to Christ on the Cross was ineffective in removing those sins?

If our sins are remitted in baptism, they were not remitted on the Cross. If the blood of Christ does not deal with our sins until baptism, it did not deal with them on the Cross and this is a huge problem for one holding baptismal remission because Christ rose from the dead proving that all sin imputed to him had been removed.

I wholeheartedly agree with one of your points..... Jesus did finish the work.

Do you believe the work of sin remission was finished on Calvary or was the work of Calvary insufficient requiring a further work of sin remission in baptism?

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

While there is no virtue in H2O and something one human does to another does not bring forgiveness of sin.MARK 16:16 does stress the importance of baptism and it's importance although natural water cannot bring regeneration. After one repents and places personal faith in Jesus Christ,water baptism is a necessary step in following The Lord,as we are to be buried with Him in baptism.

Problems arise when one tries to falsely teach that those sins imputed to Christ on Calvary are not remitted in the eyes of God until one is baptized.

I believe in the sufficient historic remission of the Cross. Those who teach baptismal remission do not.

Baptismal sin remission is another gospel that denies the Good News of the Cross.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Adino

Problems arise when one tries to falsely teach that those sins imputed to Christ on Calvary are not remitted in the eyes of God until one is baptized.

I believe in the sufficient historic remission of the Cross. Those who teach baptismal remission do not.

Baptismal sin remission is another gospel that denies the Good News of the Cross.

Agreed, Jesus (as the Son of God) has paid the price for the sins of the whole world, that blood has been applied to the human sin problem. There is not one thing that any human can do that can add to or take away from the finished work of Christ!

God is no longer imputing our sins, nor the sins of any human being against us. It is finished, we can enter into life thru faith in his blood at any moment, otherwise we will enter in when we stand in His presence, and the power of of His presence vaporizes all chaff and dross, for no wickedness nor evil will continue after being in His presence.

Moses was only exposed to His backside and his face glowed so brilliantly that folks could not look at his face.

I prefer entering now, rather than the refining fire of His presence burning all sin from me abruptly, that could be very uncomfortable.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

While I would not discount all baptisms not done the way we understand the New Testament church to have baptised, I would teach what I believe and encourage all who hear to be baptised in water as adults, calling on the name of Jesus.

Completely agreed, SH.

[Adino]

Hey, Crakjak. Long time no see. Hope all is well.

I'll repost some relevant thoughts here:

Faith brings the justification of life. God grants justification and life to those who believe in the historic finished sin remission of the Cross (John 3:15-16, John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:40,47; John 11:25,26; Romans 4:5; Romans 5:18; Acts 13:39).

The heart which does not rest in faith that sin was historically dealt with by God through Christ at Calvary remains in condemnation (John 3:18; John 3:36; John 16:8-9). Those who do not believe remain condemned, not because of those sins already remitted on the Cross, but because they've rejected Christ.

Man either:

1) Passes into a state of justification and spiritual LIFE by accepting with a heart of faith the record God gave of his Son setting to seal that God is true.... (John 3:33; 1John 5:13)

OR...

2) Man calls God a liar by rejecting the record he gave of his Son and REMAINS SPIRITUALLY DEAD in a state of condemnation. (1John 5:10-12; John 3:18; John 3:36; John 16:8-9)

The historic application of Christ's shed blood to those sins imputed to him at Calvary resulted in the remission of those sins PRIOR to the resurrection. Christ's blood was applied to our sin (imputed to Christ) and accepted by God PRIOR to the resurrection, else Christ would not have been raised.

If we say the blood of Christ needs to be applied to our sins AGAIN, we are saying the work of the Cross was inadequate and ineffective. If we say the blood needs to be applied today..... we do not have faith in the finished work of the Cross.