Interesting timing on this subject. Tuesday a friend of mine that is NOT Pentecostal has a father that is the sherrif of a small town. He goes to a church and is now wearing his gun and guarding the church with some other men. Their concerns is more with what they preceive as the direction the government seems to be heading in regards to the church.
As to the comment trust God to protect you is fine. However, I wonder why you go to work? Why don't you trust God to provide for you? Some things I believe God expects you to do for yourself.
He was with David when he went to gather his and his men's family that had been taken away.
Also, a church I once attended had a man come in and shoot and kill his girlfirend because she join a Pentecostal church. He also had threatened the pastor, but the pastor had gotten delayed by a phone call and was not yet in the scantuary. Fortunately, there were some off duty police officers that were able to take him down.
I think each person has to do what they can live with. If carrying a gun is too much for you, that is your call. But don't condemn those who don't have a problem with it.
JMO
ahhh yes, the smell of humanism in the air.
Shall we discuss the passages of Jesus not worry about clothing, food etc...
Also if you are in his will with your job and that is where he wants you, you are depending on him. Carrying a gun and shooting people is not love toward thy enemy and to those who persecute you and despitefully use you. It also shows a lack of trust in God vs human ability to take hold of the issue. Our battle is of the Spirit not in the flesh. Maybe because you lack power in the Spirit do you feel the need to cast down your foes by the flesh. Depending upon God to deliver you is true faith through the power of his Spirit. Did God tell you to wear the gun or was it your humanistic reasoning that justifies your action. have your footsteps been prepared by him by his leading? If so what have you to fear?
Also it's not "our" call it's God's in ALL THINGS!
Last edited by TheLegalist; 07-02-2009 at 12:52 PM.
Shall we discuss the passages of Jesus not worry about clothing, food etc...
Also if you are in his will with your job and that is where he wants you, you are depending on him. Carrying a gun and shooting people is not love toward thy enemy and to those who persecute you and despitefully use you. It also shows a lack of trust in God vs human ability to take hold of the issue. Our battle is of the Spirit not in the flesh. Maybe because you lack power in the Spirit do you feel the need to cast down your foes by the flesh. Depending upon God to deliver you is true faith through the power of his Spirit. Did God tell you to wear the gun or was it your humanistic reasoning that justifies your action. have your footsteps been prepared by him by his leading? If so what have you to fear?
Also it's not "our" call it's God's in ALL THINGS!
Amen.
Well said.
I'd like to add. It's unrealistic to believe that God will protect any of us from all danger and harm. In fact, if you study the words of Jesus, you will discover that trial, persecution, and tribulation are promised to the saints of God. However, we are called to obedience even if it costs us our very lives. Loving one's enemy and prayng for those who persecute us is a commandment from the lips of Jesus. He sent us as sheep before wolves. He called us to be as harmless as doves... yet as wise as serpents. The use of wisdom, wit, ruse, and escape are a Christian's tool box and prayer is our weapon. We are sent as sheep among wolves. Christ drew the line in the sand regarding violence and lethal force. I think it's fair to ask...
Who is prepared to be like a sheep before wolves? Who has the guts to be a Christian?
I'd like to add. It's unrealistic to believe that God will protect any of us from all danger and harm. In fact, if you study the words of Jesus, you will discover that trial, persecution, and tribulation are promised to the saints of God. However, we are called to obedience even if it costs us our very lives. Loving one's enemy and prayng for those who persecute us is a commandment from the lips of Jesus. He sent us as sheep before wolves. He called us to be as harmless as doves... yet as wise as serpents. The use of wisdom, wit, ruse, and escape are a Christian's tool box and prayer is our weapon. We are sent as sheep among wolves. Christ drew the line in the sand regarding violence and lethal force. I think it's fair to ask...
Who is prepared to be like a sheep before wolves? Who has the guts to be a Christian?
We must count the costs.... Is he worthy? Amen he is worthy! The difference between equal retribution and giving beyond what is minimum is loving you enemy and giving what you have beyond what is asked without respect to reward or expense. True love is found in his arms and how he held us when we where enemies of his. Shall we not give our lives also for those whom are lost? Are we not sheep led to the slaughter? Is our passion really equal to his sacrifice. We are not truly his until we let all be ALL. Until you become a provider/provision of life(I AM) to those around you, we lack his passion and fail to be a living sacrifice holy acceptable unto God which is your "reasonable" service. It's the minimum because he gave all we likewise owe all.
Randy, I think it's best to just obey Jesus... even if things get ugly.
We discussed this very briefly already, but I DO trust Jesus, but for myself. If a family member or friend is threatened and I have the opportunity to do something to try and save or defend them, I will.
Which is the purpose of having a gun (or guns) in the house. To protect the house, and all things in it, not just me.
We discussed this very briefly already, but I DO trust Jesus, but for myself. If a family member or friend is threatened and I have the opportunity to do something to try and save or defend them, I will.
Which is the purpose of having a gun (or guns) in the house. To protect the house, and all things in it, not just me.
Randy, I think you're not really grasping what we're saying.
Jesus not only commanded baptism... he also commanded that we turn the other cheek, if a man tries to take our coat give him our cloak also, if a man would persecute us we pray for him, that we love our enemies, that we take no thought for the marrow, that we not store up treasures on earth but rather in Heaven, that we be as sheep before wolves, that we be harmless as doves, that we be... like him.
A sinner might break into your house to steel your television, stereo styem, and DVD player... but... are those things so important to warrant blowing him away to face an eternal Hell? Absolutely not. If he breaks in to steal your television and stereo, give him your car keys also. While yes, he's currently a sinner in need of much help... his soul is far more valuable than anything he could steal or destroy. In addition... while this is even hard for me to accept... your family is saved. He isn't. He sends them to a glorious reward... but should you kill him he stands to burn forever. At that moment you choose to rule out all possibility of his salvation. You essentially play God and deliver his final judgment. Jesus said,
Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
If Jesus said that you are not to kill this man... and you kill him... you just threw Christ's commandments under the bus for the love of your family. Jesus is #1 Randy... not our wives, not our children, not even ourselves. But Jesus. While I definately would want to take him out like you... I have to accept that Jesus has commanded me not to. I am free to help my family escape. I'm free to choose to protect my family using non-lethal means (a demonstration of love for the enemy). However, I'm not free to kill the persecutor. I'm not free to kill some kid who's hooked on dope... I should pray that our prayers and Christian conduct in the face of death ultimately open his eyes to Christ's reality to the saving of us soul... even if he kills us. The way you choose to die may be the most powerful sermon this kid ever hears. Is his eternal soul worth it? I think so. Else Jesus wouldn't have died for him. Randy... Jesus never said the cross wouldn't be heavy. I shared a story about a man who became a missionary in a country where locals killed his family. I heard a story about a man whose son was killed by a drunk driver and when that young man got out serving time for vehicular manslaughter... the dead boy's father adopted him into his family and even presided over his baptism. Randy... when it comes to being a Christian it's like marriage... for better or for worse.
In short, I don't trust Jesus to save me. I'll say it again. I DON'T trust Jesus to protect me and my family. He promised that we would face tribulation, persecution, and that some would face death for his name's sake. So I don't trust him to deliver us from all harm. I do however know that he has commanded me to be like him. And that I pray I do if faced with my worst fears. I don't expect him to deliver me or my family from dangers... but I know he's expecting me to be like him... even when faced with the horrors of my own crucifixion or the crucifixion of those I love.
That is the depth of what it means to be a Christian. We live unto Christ... and to die is gain. We life for him... and we are called to die for him without betraying his commandments should we be faced with our worst nightmare.
Your comparing a TV or DVD player to a family member?
If someone has broken in and threatening my wife and I have the opportunity to use a "piece" or even find a clay pot to throw, I will. To NOT do it, or at least take any opportunity given, is cowardly. To sit back and say "I'll let Jesus protect my wife" is akin to the person on his roof during a flood who turns back on three different people trying to help by saying that "God will save me". From my wife's perspective, I'M the protection that Jesus promised.
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