Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
What makes Hitler any worse than others say.... Josef Stalin, or Genghis Khan! Both of those men killed or had killed entire cities.
Evil men have always existed. They will continue to exist. The only good things come from God.
Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
What makes Hitler any worse than others say.... Josef Stalin, or Genghis Khan! Both of those men killed or had killed entire cities.
Evil men have always existed. They will continue to exist. The only good things come from God.
You make that sound like a bad thing.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Amen. But when it comes to Jews slaughtered by Hitler, it was atrocious in itself, aside from any inkling that Jews were God's own. God's own are not people simply who are Jews.
When Abraham had a son named Ishmael the boy was circumcised and a child of Abraham. Isaac came along and he was likewise circumcised, but the seed was reckoned through Isaac, not Ishmael. Time went by and Isaac fathered Jacob and Esau. But the seed was not counted through Esau either. Yet Esau was a descendant of Abraham and Isaac. Even circumcised!
When Jacob became Israel, his twelve sons were called the nation of Israel and her twelve tribes. But amongst them, as time went by, should they refuse the newly introduced Passover, they were cut off and not considered part of Israel despite the lineage. Meanwhile, passover allowed, for the first time, gentiles with no Israelite lineage to become part of Israel. So Israelites not circumcised or not keepers of passover were no longer considered Israelites, whereas gentiles who kept passover and were circumcised were considered as Israelitish as the best if them.
And since Christ is the Seed foretold to Abraham for the recipient of the promises, what about the Jews who rejected Him? They are outside any promises of being God's people, let alone recipients of heritage from God.
You can reject Passover and no longer be God's own, and yet reject Christ and still be God's own?
So, just to note that, in light of the chat about "God's own," we ought not even consider Jews slaughtered as God's own being slaughtered, but simply that human beings were slaughtered. Let's not confuse the truth of whom is God's people for the sake of emphasizing the wickedness of Adolph Hitler.
Anyway, carry on.
I think people cued in on that phrase I used, but it wasn't my entire point. It was emphasis. I enjoyed your perspective.
Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
What makes Hitler any worse than others say.... Josef Stalin, or Genghis Khan! Both of those men killed or had killed entire cities.
Evil men have always existed. They will continue to exist. The only good things come from God.
The thread is about Hitler, so that's why I chose to reference him. But you're absolutely right.
It's not a matter of if WE are more worthy. It's a matter of what God thinks.
Which of course brings me to the same point I have to make over and over with you, what matters is not how emotional an argument you can make, but what the bible says
BTW...why are you so obsessed with this topic? Is it important for our salvation? Will it motivate us to go reach more souls?
Because it is the GOOD NEWS, and the traditional view of performance based Christianity it terrible news. Paul calls the gospel the "ministry of reconciliation" because God is not imputing man's sins against him, because He has already judged Jesus for the sins of the whole world.
Yes, it has motivated me to reach more souls, due to the fact that each and every human being is valuable and precious to Him.
BTW: there are many folks over the centuries that believe that the bible does in fact support the eventual redemption of every one of His lost sheep.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
WOW. The false-humility here seems astounding. Go back and watch Schindler's List or maybe remind yourself of whom you spoke of. Ideas have consequences, and ideas aren't robotically put into one's head. I suggest you read The Lamb and the Fuhrer, at least it would be entertaining and enlightening both.
Let us not disregard common sense! Hitler was an evil man, who did evil continually, who slaughtered God's own, including women and children. Hitler and may share space as sinners, but that's as far as it goes.
CHOICE, CHOICE, CHOICE.... life isn't what cards your dealt with, it's how you respond to it. Don't forget that.
Pharaoh was also an evil man, but the scripture support the fact that he was hardened by God to continue to oppose Moses. He was a vessel of dishonor, and he was destroyed in the Red Sea, but that in no way prevents God from eventually bringing Him to submission.
You have choice only within the boundaries of who you are, when and where you were born, to which parents in what culture, and with what temperament, and these boundaries were from God, you had NO CHOICE in these matters.
God's purpose is to redeem His whole creation, that every last one will bow and confess in worship, that God may be ALL IN ALL.
I have Schindler's List, the movie, and I know it was evil of the worst kind, the bottom of human behavior. Hitler will pay "every cent" in God's purging fire, but God greatest handy work is shown in the redemption of the worst of sinners. Paul killed and tormented Christian Jews, yet God made short work of redeeming old Saul the murderer. Paul declared that he was the "worst of sinners", God is not "a respecter of persons."
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Because it is the GOOD NEWS, and the traditional view of performance based Christianity it terrible news. Paul calls the gospel the "ministry of reconciliation" because God is not imputing man's sins against him, because He has already judged Jesus for the sins of the whole world.
Yes, it has motivated me to reach more souls, due to the fact that each and every human being is valuable and precious to Him.
BTW: there are many folks over the centuries that believe that the bible does in fact support the eventual redemption of every one of His lost sheep.
Christianity is not performance based. It is faith based
The Gospel IS the ministry of reconcilliation, not the ministry of universal reconcilliation
Why would it when everyone is saved no matter anyways?
That there were many folks that believed it does not make it true.
Again truth stands on the scriptures. If you are wrong, what does that mean for you?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Christianity is not performance based. It is faith based
The Gospel IS the ministry of reconcilliation, not the ministry of universal reconcilliation
Why would it when everyone is saved no matter anyways?
That there were many folks that believed it does not make it true.
Again truth stands on the scriptures. If you are wrong, what does that mean for you?
Jesus came to save "that which was lost..." I believe that would includes us all.
It matters a great deal, God as great purpose for those that believe NOW, plus the fact that it is advisable to avoid the refiner's fire.
BTW: Have I mentioned that scripture supports universal reconcilication?
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Jesus came to save "that which was lost..." I believe that would includes us all.
I matters a great deal, God as great purpose for those that believe NOW, plus the fact that it is advisable to avoid the refiner's fire.
BTW: Have I mentioned that scripture supports universal reconcilication?
I agree it includes us too. Yet many are called but few are chosen.
Take the parable of the sower of the word and the good and bad ground. Not everyone receives.
The refiners fire burns off the impure. Those going into the fire are impure. They are removed from the children of light
BTW Scripture does not support Universal reconciliation. However just saying it does over and over and resorting to stories of emotion does not prove that it does.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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