Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to! - Page 4

ManOfWord · #31 07-23-2009, 08:55 PM

The problem I have is not with the biblical prosperity that is promised. The problem I have is with the RADICAL prosperity message that is espoused by some. For those, they preach the message not to make everyone else rich, but so THEY can be rich. They tell folks to sow into THEIR ministry because THEIR ministry is fertile soil. In all my years of pastoring (over 25) my observation is that the only ones who rich from the RADICAL prosperity message is those who preach it!

Don't get me wrong...the Lord has prospered me and my family abundantly. We freely and joyfully give and have given. I have NEVER EVER told someone to give to my minister because it it fertile soil and they will be blessed because of it.

I believe in prosperity. Prosperity comes from working diligently, using wisdom, being honest, liberal in giving, spending less than you make. It is more about Proverbs living than it is plopping some money down Mike Murdoch style and expecting someone running down the street to hand you an envelope full of money! (and I know God can do that) It's just that most of these guys sell their "formula" like the late night get rich quick schemers by using the small minority of those with incredible stories to tell everyone that they can have it too! I was born at night....but it wasn't last night!

I personally know at least one pastor who said that the prosperity gospel is where the money is! I think Piper is right on target in what he is coming against...the RADICAL prosperity preachers.

Like I said, I have given and been blessed because of it. But I don't give to get blessed. I give to be a blessing. If I want to make some money, I may make an investment. I don't give in the kingdom for an investment. I do it because it is the right thing to do. God IS concerned with out motives.

gloryseeker · #32 07-23-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irreligious

You're wrong, biblically, realistically, and historically.

Hmmmm, you give an example of one person and I am biblically, realistically, and historically wrong. That's some argument you've made.

Let me help you again. There are more than one who hasn't taken western money, but as a whole the China church (as well as pretty much any other foreign work) has been developed on western money.

Quote:

Read the story of J. Hudson Taylor who, in 51 years in China, took the church from zero to over 800,000 and modern day millions. He refused to take any missions support from anyone.

So let's look at your one example. Since you used the general term of "millions" we will credit him with five million. Therefore his affect on China is .3 percent of China. (that's less than 1%)

But hey, I'm biblically, historically, and realistically don't have a clue

(that would be a default to dude

)

Jason B · #33 07-23-2009, 10:33 PM

GS, your way off base on this (which is usual when you post concerning money). Your sarcasim and mocking are tiring.

Irreligious · #34 07-24-2009, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

Hmmmm, you give an example of one person and I am biblically, realistically, and historically wrong. That's some argument you've made.

Let me help you again. There are more than one who hasn't taken western money, but as a whole the China church (as well as pretty much any other foreign work) has been developed on western money.

So let's look at your one example. Since you used the general term of "millions" we will credit him with five million. Therefore his affect on China is .3 percent of China. (that's less than 1%)

But hey, I'm biblically, historically, and realistically don't have a clue

(that would be a default to dude

)

You said "NEVER", and I gave you an example and said you were wrong. You are.......Dude.

This all reminds me of why I left Pentecostalism years ago and the religious culture a few years ago. It's like arguing with a stump. You say something has "never" happened, I give an example of where it HAS happened, and you respond with a percentage that minimizes the work of a man who was instrumental in changing the population of heaven and hell by millions.

So, I'll just move along. You think I'm wrong, and I think you are. I'll just leave it at that.

gloryseeker · #35 07-24-2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irreligious

You said "NEVER", and I gave you an example and said you were wrong. You are.......Dude.

This all reminds me of why I left Pentecostalism years ago and the religious culture a few years ago. It's like arguing with a stump. You say something has "never" happened, I give an example of where it HAS happened, and you respond with a percentage that minimizes the work of a man who was instrumental in changing the population of heaven and hell by millions.

So, I'll just move along. You think I'm wrong, and I think you are. I'll just leave it at that.

Here is a re-post of the one you are talking about:

"Blah blah blah....I know where you stand on the house church. Yes you are right. China is one of the fastest growing churches in the world (I'm saying this like Eor the cartoon character), but what you fail to mention is that their movement is primarily funded by the west and even at their rapid growth rate, as a percentage to the overall population it is almost statistically insignificant.

While I realize souls are not insignificant, a soul is a soul is a soul, they are obviously going to have a high growth rate due to the enormity of people in the region.

Historically speaking it is not "house church" or "poverty" that creates a thriving church it is persecution - read the book of Acts, Voice of the Martyrs, and so on."

I'm not sure what "never" you are referring to. You may have left Pentecostalism too early just because you misunderstood the conversation, Y'ole stump you

Irreligious · #36 07-24-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

Blessed are the poor financially for they shall never evangelize the world

You said, "Never."

gloryseeker · #37 07-24-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irreligious

You said, "Never."

You're the dude now, dude. You took that out of context...talk about the "stump." That was a response to someone talking against prosperity. My point was that it takes money to evangelize the world.

The guy you gave as a reference you were stating that he evangelized without western money or at least that would be the context relative to the post I made that you were responding to. Sheez.....talking about spinning things

Irreligious · #38 07-24-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

You're the dude now, dude. You took that out of context...talk about the "stump." That was a response to someone talking against prosperity. My point was that it takes money to evangelize the world.

The guy you gave as a reference you were stating that he evangelized without western money or at least that would be the context relative to the post I made that you were responding to. Sheez.....talking about spinning things

I figured there'd be an explanation.