Anyone Here Believe In Soul Sleep?

[easter]

Originally Posted by pastorrush

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. With the story that Jesus told about the rich man and Lazarus the bible has refuted soul sleeping. The soul is eternal it never sleeps.

[easter]

Where did the belief of soul-sleep originate from?
We know Solomon wrote "THE DEAD KNOW NOTHING"
Jesus also made the statement"LET THE DEAD BURY THE DEAD"

Solomon had the understanding that when the physcial body died,the physcial body passed on to death,knowing nothing.However he never mentions the spirit of the one who is dead.Solomon never says the spirit of man who has passed unto death was unknowing.No,Solomon was talking about the physcial body knowing nothing.The physcial body is only a covering for the spirit of man.When the spirit of man leaves the physcial body,the body does not know anything because it is only a covering.Same as a glove.You wear a glove to cover the hand,the glove is the same shape as the hand,moves with the hand and is a part of the hand.Remove the hand and the glove knows nothing because it was only a covering.Does this mean the hand no longer exists?No the hand has no more use for the glove but yet the hand continues on and the glove knows nothing.
The statement Jesus made about the dead burying the dead?
This is simply referring to people who are spiritually dead.

[Michael The Disciple]

At the risk of getting this thread off topic I quote Mblume:

Jesus being on the throne of David now, and us being the New Jerusalem now, and no physical kingdom ever coming, we are the trees of life alongside the River in Rev 22, and we rule over cities NOW, have gigantic implications. But that sounds too gigantic a difference for some folks to consider, let alone mention in describing our beliefs.

Jesus is on the throne of David now. We are New Jerusalem now. Ok. You think thats GIGANTIC compared to the resurrection of the dead? There is a REASON why the resurrection is called a FOUNDATION DOCTRINE in Heb. 6.

We are the trees of life?
No physical kingdom to come?
We rule over cities now?

How absurd! Now those are some useless topics indeed.

I sure dont want them brought into this thread but Im just quickly comparing the importance of the doctrine of resurrection of the dead to these teeny here today gone tomorrow "puffed up" teachings.

[DerechHashem]

When mankind dies a death (natural or otherwise) is dead until the resurrection.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

At the risk of getting this thread off topic I quote Mblume:



Jesus is on the throne of David now. We are New Jerusalem now. Ok. You think thats GIGANTIC compared to the resurrection of the dead? There is a REASON why the resurrection is called a FOUNDATION DOCTRINE in Heb. 6.

We are the trees of life?
No physical kingdom to come?
We rule over cities now?

How absurd! Now those are some useless topics indeed.

I sure dont want them brought into this thread but Im just quickly comparing the importance of the doctrine of resurrection of the dead to these teeny here today gone tomorrow "puffed up" teachings.

I do not know why people have to pop attitudes in speaking of difference in doctrines. "Absurd"? Where's the respect of just saying, "I disagree"? "Puffed up doctrines"?

Alas, it probably cannot change.

Trees of life: Read Psalm 1 and see how we are we also called trees of righteousness in Isaiah.

No Physical kingdom to come: Jesus said the kingdom does not come with observation, IOW is not something you can see.

We rule over cities now: Unless some people see a physical throne they do not belive we are kings and priests now. Things which are unseen are eternal. Rev 1:5-6 says we already have been made kings.

Soul sleep is NOT resurrection. Resurrection is indeed vital and important. It shows how Mankind will not have lost anything permanently that God created us with, including BODY. But soul sleep is a diversion from that important aspect and an assumed integral part, though it is actually an irrelevant part if true anyway.

SOUL SLEEP is a doctrine easily refuted by one verse: 2 Cor 5:8. And whereas you believe Paul was pipe dreaming in that verse, Derech Hashem believes a completely different interpretation of that verse. Who is right? This soul sleep advocate or that soul sleep advocate?

It does not matter if we sleep or not, aside from violating the scripture if we do sleep, because IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT WE DO TODAY FOR GOD. The above mentioned list that you mocked does indeed affect the way we live today. Satan would love for us all to believe the KINGDOM is not yet, and that it is physical, since he knows we will not learn about the invisible kingdom that is here now, and will therefore never realize we can smash and overcome all his powers in the world today. It puts it off until a time we think it will come, when it will be too late.

Satan wants everything in the past or future, so we do not act NOW and work the works of the Kingdom for the Father. Spending time on things like soul sleep that matters not an iota today is exactly where the enemy wants us spending our time. We instead need to learn who we are now in this present invisible kingdom so we can do some work for God that dispensationalism and other such errors are robbing people from doing by watering down the kingdom to something we have to wait for after death or rapture.

Practical teachings affect the way we live and believe God for action in this life now. To believe the Kingdom is NOW and not far off in a physical manifestation of physical thrones and castles is to push any need to ACT NOW as kings away. I am seated with Christ RIGHT NOW in heavenly places. And Christ is over every power in this world and the world to come. So I must ACT NOW in this kingdom manner as a king and priest unto God. Your doctrine would say there is no kingship now at all, despite Rev 12:5-6, so it leaves you doing NOTHING as a king in the kingdom today. And you say this has no implications of difference NOW in how we live? I believe the Kingdom is NOW and you believe it is not yet. You say this does not affect the way each of us approaches the will of God in our lives now? You're not even being honest. It only becomes a conversation that goes to pot and is more about "No, you're wrong, nya nya," then an intellectual and spiritual conversation when you say there is no difference in how we live as believers now.

Soul sleep does not affect the way anyone lives today. If you and I agreed ion everything but soul sleep, there would be no difference in how each of us serves God now. There is no greater commitment to God due to faith in soul sleep. It affects NOTHING in the believer practically.

[DerechHashem]

Some people get offensive over others belief.

Could it be possible, they have questions on their own belief system?

Who knows.

[DerechHashem]

Job recognized that man has a spirit (Job 32:8), which Paul shows in I Corinthians 2:11 endows humanity with intellect.

This spirit in man comes from God (Zechariah 12:1) and returns to Him when we die (Ecclesiastes 12:7; Acts 7:59).

It records our experiences, character, and personality, which God stores until the resurrection of the dead.

However, the Bible never describes this spirit as immortal or eternal; in fact, 1Corinthians 2:6-16 explains that man needs yet another Spirit, God's, to be complete and discern godly things.

The Bible flatly asserts that all people die: "It is appointed for men to die once" (Hebrews 9:27).

Ezekiel says clearly that souls die: "The soul who sins shall die" (Ezekiel 18:4, 20; see Romans 6:23).

Jesus warns in Matthew 10:28 that God can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

In death, life and consciousness are gone. "The dead know nothing," says Solomon in Ecclesiastes 9:5, and he later adds, "There is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going" (verse 10).

In Psalm 146:4, the psalmist writes about a man's death, "His spirit departs, he returns to his earth; in that very day his plans perish" (see Genesis 3:19).

Scripture also confutes the idea that people go to heaven or hell after death.

Peter says to the crowd on the day of Pentecost, "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. . . . For David did not ascend into the heavens" (Acts 2:29, 34).

Our Savior confirms this in John 3:13: "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven."

The biblical usage of Sheol and Hades simply means "the grave."

Men cannot have immortality unless God gives it to them.

Paul writes, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

In 1Corinthians 15:53 he tells the saints, "This corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

At the first resurrection God will give "eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality" (Romans 2:7).

If we already had immortality, why should we put it on or seek it?

Only God has immortality. He is, Paul writes to Timothy, ". . . the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality" (I Timothy 6:15-16).

John says of the Word, "In Him was life" (John 1:4), meaning as Creator of all things (verse 3), He had life inherent.

Jesus affirms this in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life."

Men must go through Him to receive eternal life.

With such overwhelming proof, the doctrine of the immortality of the soul proves false to me.

Man is not immortal, nor does he possess any "spark of God" unless God has given it to him through the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11).

A Christian's hope of life after death rests in the resurrection of the dead (I Corinthians 15:12-23).

Conversely, the wicked only await eternal death as recompense for their evil lives, not eternal life in torment.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by DerechHashem

Job recognized that man has a spirit (Job 32:8), which Paul shows in I Corinthians 2:11 endows humanity with intellect.

This spirit in man comes from God (Zechariah 12:1) and returns to Him when we die (Ecclesiastes 12:7; Acts 7:59).

It records our experiences, character, and personality, which God stores until the resurrection of the dead.

However, the Bible never describes this spirit as immortal or eternal; in fact, 1Corinthians 2:6-16 explains that man needs yet another Spirit, God's, to be complete and discern godly things.

The Bible flatly asserts that all people die: "It is appointed for men to die once" (Hebrews 9:27).

Ezekiel says clearly that souls die: "The soul who sins shall die" (Ezekiel 18:4, 20; see Romans 6:23).

Jesus warns in Matthew 10:28 that God can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

In death, life and consciousness are gone. "The dead know nothing," says Solomon in Ecclesiastes 9:5, and he later adds, "There is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going" (verse 10).

In Psalm 146:4, the psalmist writes about a man's death, "His spirit departs, he returns to his earth; in that very day his plans perish" (see Genesis 3:19).

Scripture also confutes the idea that people go to heaven or hell after death.

Peter says to the crowd on the day of Pentecost, "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. . . . For David did not ascend into the heavens" (Acts 2:29, 34).

Our Savior confirms this in John 3:13: "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven."

The biblical usage of Sheol and Hades simply means "the grave."

Men cannot have immortality unless God gives it to them.

Paul writes, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

In 1Corinthians 15:53 he tells the saints, "This corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

At the first resurrection God will give "eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality" (Romans 2:7).

If we already had immortality, why should we put it on or seek it?

Only God has immortality. He is, Paul writes to Timothy, ". . . the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality" (I Timothy 6:15-16).

John says of the Word, "In Him was life" (John 1:4), meaning as Creator of all things (verse 3), He had life inherent.

Jesus affirms this in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life."

Men must go through Him to receive eternal life.

With such overwhelming proof, the doctrine of the immortality of the soul proves false to me.

Man is not immortal, nor does he possess any "spark of God" unless God has given it to him through the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11).

A Christian's hope of life after death rests in the resurrection of the dead (I Corinthians 15:12-23).

Conversely, the wicked only await eternal death as recompense for their evil lives, not eternal life in torment.

This is an excellent summary of the FOUNDATION DOCTRINE of the resurrection. Glad you have brought your zeal and knowledge of this topic onboard!

[Michael The Disciple]

SOUL SLEEP is a doctrine easily refuted by one verse: 2 Cor 5:8. And whereas you believe Paul was pipe dreaming in that verse, Derech Hashem believes a completely different interpretation of that verse. Who is right? This soul sleep advocate or that soul sleep advocate?

You totally misunderstood or simply distorted what I said about being absent from the body and present with the Lord. No one else took what I said about it like you did on this board or anywhere else.

Pipe dreaming? So ridiculous.

Show me where Derech teaches something different than I do on this matter.

And so you think that all "instant heaven" believers are in agreement?

I have posted in one thread here where one of you disagreed with their own self about immortal soul.

[Michael The Disciple]

Soul sleep does not affect the way anyone lives today. MBlume

Thats because they dont understand it is the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead to eternal life. It actually is the "good news" of scripture. Man can have life after death.