Maybe this Baton Rouge meeting is different though. Tim Spell? He's fellowshipping with WPF? He's always been independent and I thought the farthest from WPF ideology.
I have never understood what emergent doctrine consists of...please explain in simple words,,,,
IMO getting a definitive answer to your question may be difficult. The problem lies in the many varied definitions of the "emergent church" doctrines/ideologies.
Here are some markers (compiled from various articles on the subject none of which were "Apostolic" in origin) that help to identify the "emergent church."
1. Other religions and religious practices are beginning to be accepted in the name of unity.
2. Doctrine is deemed to be divisive.
3. Bible study is replaced by the study of someone's book
4. The topics of heaven and hell, sin, repentance, salvation, and holiness are downplayed so no one leaves offended
5. Impersonal forms of prayer and mysticism is being encouraged rather than praying in the name of Jesus.
6. That alternative lifestyles such as homosexuality and same sex marriages are no longer believed to be sinful.
The term "emergent church" however, IMO is really defined by those within a certain doctrinal camp, and in reality EVERY denomination defines "emergent" from their own doctrinal perspective. To some "emerging" means a church that is casual in dress and singing modern "worship" songs. To others it is more of a doctrinal issue. I find myself in the latter.
IMHO It doesn't matter whether the preacher is preaching in a pair of jeans with a nice shirt and no tie or if he is in a three piece suit. What matters is that truth is being preached. I really don't care what kind of bow you want to put on the box but we MUST NEVER change the content of the box. The gospel of Jesus Christ which brings salvation, and sound doctrine which includes holiness and separation from the world are not optional.
BishopH-Amen.
But in the same breath as the Gospel, which is equivalent to salvation, you have put "holiness and separation," which pertains to Christian ethics and living, in the same category. And I assume your "holiness and separation" is code language for holding to unbiblical commandments as gospel?
BishopH-Amen.
But in the same breath as the Gospel, which is equivalent to salvation, you have put "holiness and separation," which pertains to Christian ethics and living, in the same category. And I assume your "holiness and separation" is code language for holding to unbiblical commandments as gospel?
No "code language" here! I forgot an "and" which I have added, however, holiness is a component of salvation and one cannot have salvation without holiness as the writer of Hebrews admonishes us;"Work at living in peace with everyone, and work at living a holy life, for those who are not holy will not see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14(NLT) And holiness is a progressive work in our lives "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." 2 Corinthians 7:1
While I understand the need for growth and maturity, IMHO if a "Christian" does not exemplify "Christian" ethics and living then he/she is not a true Christian. Separation from the world in conduct, dress, attitude, and manner of life is "biblical" in every sense of the word.
No "code language" here! I forgot an "and" which I have added, however, holiness is a component of salvation and one cannot have salvation without holiness as the writer of Hebrews admonishes us;"Work at living in peace with everyone, and work at living a holy life, for those who are not holy will not see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14(NLT) And holiness is a progressive work in our lives "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." 2 Corinthians 7:1
While I understand the need for growth and maturity, IMHO if a "Christian" does not exemplify "Christian" ethics and living then he/she is not a true Christian. Separation from the world in conduct, dress, attitude, and manner of life is "biblical" in every sense of the word.
I'm amazed in all of Paul's writings, you believe Christian living is part of salvation, and not byproduct of salvation and maturity. I have news for you, though I put on holiness, and strive, even, to be perfect, in my own self, I am unholy and wretched. I fall short. The exhortation in Hebrews 12:14 most assuredly is not a teaching on how to be saved, but rather the responsibility of one who is saved.
Yes, it is entirely progressive. What's interesting is when people put their own dogmas under what is defined as "holiness" and then insert these dogmas into scriptures where the word "holy" or "holiness" appear.
Those who don't pursue holiness, those who are "unholy", meaning, living wicked lives, will not see the Lord. The context of the Chapter is about listening to the Lord, which is what Holiness is all about: having an ear toward heaven, letting it renew our minds, thoughts and consequently our behaviors (actions).
These guys that use the word Emergent have no clue what the word refers to. To the it means the same as Charismatic...to them anyone that does not agree with them on everything is emergent
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
These guys that use the word Emergent have no clue what the word refers to. To the it means the same as Charismatic...to them anyone that does not agree with them on everything is emergent
Opposite of Charismatic, but same flavor: backslidden. Charismatics throw away Holiness, to them, Emergents, throw away Holiness AND the essentiality of the Holy Ghost. Funny, the terms becomes their own loaded word, meaning nothing close to its original intent- and frankly, completely independent of Apostolics.
I'm amazed in all of Paul's writings, you believe Christian living is part of salvation, and not byproduct of salvation and maturity. I have news for you, though I put on holiness, and strive, even, to be perfect, in my own self, I am unholy and wretched. I fall short. The exhortation in Hebrews 12:14 most assuredly is not a teaching on how to be saved, but rather the responsibility of one who is saved.
Yes, it is entirely progressive. What's interesting is when people put their own dogmas under what is defined as "holiness" and then insert these dogmas into scriptures where the word "holy" or "holiness" appear.
Those who don't pursue holiness, those who are "unholy", meaning, living wicked lives, will not see the Lord. The context of the Chapter is about listening to the Lord, which is what Holiness is all about: having an ear toward heaven, letting it renew our minds, thoughts and consequently our behaviors (actions).
My good brother Jeffrey, I hear from you posts the same mantra that I hear from so many who have become imprisoned by their liberty. So often in their attempt to point out the hardness and bitterness of their legalistic" brethren they fall into the same rhetoric just from the other end of the spectrum. Let me address some of your points.
If you would have read what I stated without your shaded glasses, you would have seen that I clearly separated the Gospel/salvation from sound doctrine which "includes holiness and separation from the world." One would likely not endure sound doctrine if he was not saved. The "news" you have for me is really old news with a touch of error! True holiness is not something we can put on; it is without question the product of salvation and relationship with God. The concept of “perfecting” holiness does not suggest that we can improve or increase our holiness, but rather, that we can crucify our flesh so that his holiness may reign in and emanate from our lives. Can a person be saved and not be/become holy?
Secondly, your statement concerning peoples definition of holiness, and the fact that people "insert these dogmas" into scriptures is due to a total misunderstanding/misrepresentation of holiness vs. sanctification. Separation from the world is possible without being holy; however one cannot be holy without being separated from the world. The term “holiness” has been errantly used to describe outward “standards.” However, holiness is a heart/soul work which will become evident in manner of life, Christian character, and in separation from the world in thought, attitude, and actions including how we dress/adorn ourselves.
It is IMHO important to remember that God has allowed the church to establish lines of separation from the world from its earliest days. (I.e. Acts 15) Thus I believe the church today has the liberty to establish those same things based on the culture, and influence of society.
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