So did Jesus really take upon the penalty...

TheLegalist · #1 03-05-2010, 12:59 PM

... of death for us? The explanation of this seems to be wide and varying.

I have this simple question for those who are Universalists and others in the Is Hell real debate..... It also concerns some forms of belief of imputed rightouessness/justification and substitutionary atonement.

Since we "deserved" death and Jesus took upon the penalty of death in exchange. Why is Jesus now not still experiencing such a penalty? Is not the penalty of sin BEYOND this physical death into eternity? If the penalty was death why such a turn around to be resurrected? Whether he could raise himself or not, where is this equal exchange of death for life?

Could this mean the only aspect of punishment was only to DEATH "once" in this life and then nothingness, which was the fuel of the Pharisee and Sadduccee debate? Thus annihilation is the true punishment?

deltaguitar · #2 03-05-2010, 01:46 PM

Jesus was slaughtered for our sin. The resurrection was proof that the sacrifice was accepted.

I know I am not giving you a complete explanation but this is a good question and one that I would love to talk about when I have more time.

TheLegalist · #3 03-05-2010, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Jesus was slaughtered for our sin. The resurrection was proof that the sacrifice was accepted.

I know I am not giving you a complete explanation but this is a good question and one that I would love to talk about when I have more time.

The question though is why is Jesus not still taking upon our penalty NOW if our punishment was eternal separation and punishment. That is not truly taking upon our punishment or God's wrath if that is what our punishment actually was.

deltaguitar · #4 03-05-2010, 02:03 PM

Well, our offense is against a perfect and holy God and demands eternal punishment.

Jesus blood satisfied the sin debt. His blood was righteous. As the perfect and sinless son of God his blood purchased and paid for our salvation and God accepted this payment on our behalf.

TheLegalist · #5 03-05-2010, 02:07 PM

If you where just sentenced to eternal life in prison. I came along and said Delta. I have a clean record and I will serve your time for you while you live free on the other side ofthe fence. You get excited accept my exchange and three days later your walking along and I say HEY! You look at me and go... uh I thought your where in prison? I say oh that... well I can walk out anytime I want. Is that really accepting the offense and punishment? Do you think the judge will say that was correct exchange?

The issue here is either with the view many have of substitutionary atonement or our view of the penalty or maybe both. I think both but I wanted others input.

TheLegalist · #6 03-05-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Well, our offense is against a perfect and holy God and demands eternal punishment.

Jesus blood satisfied the sin debt. His blood was righteous. As the perfect and sinless son of God his blood purchased and paid for our salvation and God accepted this payment on our behalf.

I agree but his penalty was only that of temporal death? correct?

Timmy · #7 03-05-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Jesus was slaughtered for our sin. The resurrection was proof that the sacrifice was accepted.

I know I am not giving you a complete explanation but this is a good question and one that I would love to talk about when I have more time.

Were any of the animals of OT sacrifices resurrected? Were any of those sacrifices accepted?

deltaguitar · #8 03-05-2010, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy

Were any of the animals of OT sacrifices resurrected? Were any of those sacrifices accepted?

No. If they were then Jesus wouldn't have had to die.

deltaguitar · #9 03-05-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

If you where just sentenced to eternal life in prison. I came along and said Delta. I have a clean record and I will serve your time for you while you live free on the other side ofthe fence. You get excited accept my exchange and three days later your walking along and I say HEY! You look at me and go... uh I thought your where in prison? I say oh that... well I can walk out anytime I want. Is that really accepting the offense and punishment? Do you think the judge will say that was correct exchange?

The issue here is either with the view many have of substitutionary atonement or our view of the penalty or maybe both. I think both but I wanted others input.

The difference is that the sacrifice was accepted.