Read Segraves on "letting down hair"

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

Any place you hear or read or see LS say "uncut hair", just replace it with "obedience and submission", or "obedient and submissive", and see if you would then agree with his point? The fact is, that "uncut hair" is an issue of "obedience and submission", and this is the whole point LS is driving at.

So if he is only speaking of obedience, why did he make this statement:

"I've watched this year. I know some men that are powerful in the Spirit. Powerfully used by God. But, I've watched a couple of them, even this year, they came up against a problem and they could not find an answer to. They couldn't come to any kind of an answer, but the wife, who is in the background, usually, they had never cut their hair. One day he walked in just twisting his hands, one of them in particular, and she came to him and she said, "This is the answer here." And she mapped out an answer that was so perfect, he staggered at the wisdom in it. Do you know why she got a hold of that and he didn't? Because ladies, among us, who do not cut their hair are entangled with angels and the wisdom and power of angels that men are not connected to and they cannot be connected to it."



He has stated numerous times that women have a power that MEN DON'T HAVE, because of their long hair.

That is not problematic for you????

[Falla39]

(King James Version)

1 Corinthians 11:1-16 (KJV)

1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.


These passages are to men and women alike. And it has everything to do with
obedience and submission to the Mighty GOD IN CHRIST. Paul is setting things in
God's order. There is an order in creation, family, church. If things are done in
decency and in order, they will work. Things out of order will surely back up on
you, IF IGNORED!!! Just ignore that plumbing problem long enough. Just ignore that
seemingly little problem in your marriage, ignore that trend you see in that young
teenager. Better to deal with that "little" problem than to put it on IGNORE!

And in your family, if he won't take care of it, woman, you had better do it. Some-
one has got to do it. And God so equipped her so that if he wouldn't take care of
it, she could. She has the God-given "power" of the Most High, to do it. She has
THE NAME. She has the same Power given to men and women at Pentecost. The
Head of all principality and power provided it. IN CHRIST there is no difference in
Jew or Gentile, bond or free, male or female, but are all ONE in Christ Jesus!

The body is made to work in good order. We can refuse the order of God's order
by abusing it. Today there are many that have and are having to have by-pass
surgery, especially pertaining to the heart. By-pass is not what God intended but
is a merciful alternative in order for mankind to be able to live longer.
Sometimes the order in which God intended for things to work smoothly and effect-
tively, have had to be by-passed, or even "cut off" in order for the survival or life of
the whole body, unit, etc. Amputation is hard on the body but sometimes may be
necessary.

As in the case where you have a family where either parent refused the order God set
for them, the one out of order will either submit/obey the one set over them, or there
may need to be a by-pass in order for the survival of that marriage or family unit. It can
be either the man or the woman and can be the children also.
GOD, Christ, man, woman, and children. Sometimes it doesn't work in this order, because
someone is OUT OF ORDER! Hearts out of order may need by-pass surgery. Just this week
a friend of mine, had a heart procedure in which they shocked her heart and got it back in
order as God intended it. GOD knows how to do heart procedures too. But if the person re-
fuses to let (allow/permit) the Great Physican to help them, they may die. Spiritually or
physically. God provides mercy and grace to those who will receive it.

Falla39

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Falla39

And in your family, if he won't take care of it, woman, you had better do it. Some-
one has got to do it. And God so equipped her so that if he wouldn't take care of
it, she could. She has the God-given "power" of the Most High, to do it. She has
THE NAME. She has the same Power given to men and women at Pentecost. The
Head of all principality and power provided it. IN CHRIST there is no difference in
Jew or Gentile, bond or free, male or female, but are all ONE in Christ Jesus!

We get it, Falla. If the man isn't spiritual, but his wife is, God will use her.

However, LS is talking to (and about) men who ARE filled with the Holy Ghost, who ARE leading their churches and homes, and is STILL placing the onus on the woman and the alleged power in her uncut hair.

He IS undermining the authoritative position of the man in the church and home, no ifs, ands or buts about it. He is not making the same point that you are. He did not say that men have the same power in the Holy Ghost that women do. In fact, he implied that they have less--that they need women with uncut hair in their homes and churches in order for the anointing of the Holy Ghost to be there, and in order for people to have physical protection and healing.

If he believed men had the same power in the Holy Ghost(from the same context), then why not harp on men having short hair? He even alluded to a story about a man with long hair in one sermon, but he did NOT take the opportunity to talk about the power that was gained when the man cut his hair--only the fact that he lost a potential spirit of homosexuality.

Both Apostolic men AND women have the same Holy Ghost. If a woman has the favor and blessings of God because of obedience to the Word and submission to God and her husband, THEN her husband has the same favor and blessings (and wisdom, and anointing, and power...) due to his obedience and submission to God.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

He even alluded to a story about a man with long hair in one sermon, but he did NOT take the opportunity to talk about the power that was gained when the man cut his hair--only the fact that he lost a potential spirit of homosexuality.

Oddly enough, every homosexual male that I personally know has short hair. Not really relevant to this discussion, just an interesting observation.

(and I guess I could put this on the other thread, but they all have shaved faces, too )

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

We get it, Falla. If the man isn't spiritual, but his wife is, God will use her.

However, LS is talking to (and about) men who ARE filled with the Holy Ghost, who ARE leading their churches and homes, and is STILL placing the onus on the woman and the alleged power in her uncut hair.

He IS undermining the authoritative position of the man in the church and home, no ifs, ands or buts about it. He is not making the same point that you are. He did not say that men have the same power in the Holy Ghost that women do. In fact, he implied that they have less--that they need women with uncut hair in their homes and churches in order for the anointing of the Holy Ghost to be there, and in order for people to have physical protection and healing.

If he believed men had the same power in the Holy Ghost(from the same context), then why not harp on men having short hair? He even alluded to a story about a man with long hair in one sermon, but he did NOT take the opportunity to talk about the power that was gained when the man cut his hair--only the fact that he lost a potential spirit of homosexuality.

Both Apostolic men AND women have the same Holy Ghost. If a woman has the favor and blessings of God because of obedience to the Word and submission to God and her husband, THEN her husband has the same favor and blessings (and wisdom, and anointing, and power...) due to his obedience and submission to God.

Read on, MissBrattified! Oh, did I mention anything about LS! The Word
states that IN CHRIST, there is no difference in male or female. But not
all couples in a marriage are IN CHRIST!

As in the case where you have a family where either parent refused the order God set
for them, the one out of order will either submit/obey the one set over them, or there
may need to be a by-pass in order for the survival of that marriage or family unit. It can
be either the man or the woman and can be the children also.

GOD, Christ, man, woman, and children. Sometimes it doesn't work in this order, because
someone is OUT OF ORDER! Hearts out of order may need by-pass surgery. Just this week
a friend of mine, had a heart procedure in which they shocked her heart and got it back in
order as God intended it. GOD knows how to do heart procedures too. But if the person re-
fuses to let (allow/permit) the Great Physican to help them, they may die. Spiritually or
physically. God provides mercy and grace to those who will receive it.

Falla39

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Read on, MissBrattified! Oh, did I mention anything about LS! The Word
states that IN CHRIST, there is no difference in male or female. But not
all couples in a marriage are IN CHRIST!

I didn't say that you did mention LS, but we've been discussing his teachings ad infinitum ad nauseum, so I felt at liberty to bring him into it.

As in the case where you have a family where either parent refused the order God set
for them, the one out of order will either submit/obey the one set over them, or there
may need to be a by-pass in order for the survival of that marriage or family unit. It can
be either the man or the woman and can be the children also.

GOD, Christ, man, woman, and children. Sometimes it doesn't work in this order, because
someone is OUT OF ORDER! Hearts out of order may need by-pass surgery. Just this week
a friend of mine, had a heart procedure in which they shocked her heart and got it back in
order as God intended it. GOD knows how to do heart procedures too. But if the person re-
fuses to let (allow/permit) the Great Physican to help them, they may die. Spiritually or
physically. God provides mercy and grace to those who will receive it.

Falla39

I understand what you're saying. Many of us have had Grandmas, Mothers, Aunts, or other women in our families who have held the family together when the man was out sowing his wild oats.

I totally agree with you that a godly woman can be of great benefit in a household where the man has run amuck, spiritually speaking. (and otherwise) Although even the most godly woman cannot control the actions of others, and many things can happen beyond her control.

I'm not sure what it has to do with this thread, if you're not addressing LS's teachings.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I'm not sure what it has to do with this thread, if you're not addressing LS's teachings.

I took it that she wanted to express how she views the passage without reference to LS.

[Falla39]

I Cor. 11 is not LS's teachings. It is the Word of GOD. Paul is setting some things
in order. Apply it to the home, a marriage and a family. Churches are made up of
men and women that live in homes and go to church. Not every one has been taught
in the home as we were. The church is a wonderful place to teach those who were
never taught in the home. The ones who should be teaching and preaching in the
churches are those who first learned in the home, taught by godly parents, grand-
parents, etc. But how many that are trying to teach things they have never been
taught. Then you have younger generations saying the older generation taught it
wrong. I am speaking of teaching our children Biblical principals of respect, integrity
and godly principals in the home. Basic principals of godly living. Live it and teach
others from the Word of God.

Paul posed the question that except a man first know how to take care of his own
home, how can he take care of the house of God.

Falla39

[Pressing-On]

My whole angst on this issue is that, somehow, the "power on her head" is being thrown toward the hair.

If I want to find out what "For this cause", in verse 10, is referring to, I am not going to run to verse 15. I'm going to read verse 9 and then verse 8 and then verse 7.........

When I read directly above and below verse 10, it is speaking of man and woman. The reference to coverings (verses 4-7) is a gender distinction and an order. If there is any power to be had, it is in that and not on the issue of hair.

I Cor 11
(8) For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

(9) Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

(10) For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

Power, in I Cor 11, is defined as: Exousia - authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength.

It is not and never will be - dunamis - force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself): - ability, abundance, meaning, mighty, mightily, mighty deed, worker of miracles, power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Falla39

I Cor. 11 is not LS's teachings. It is the Word of GOD. Paul is setting some things
in order. Apply it to the home, a marriage and a family. Churches are made up of
men and women that live in homes and go to church. Not every one has been taught
in the home as we were. The church is a wonderful place to teach those who were
never taught in the home. The ones who should be teaching and preaching in the
churches are those who first learned in the home, taught by godly parents, grand-
parents, etc. But how many that are trying to teach things they have never been
taught. Then you have younger generations saying the older generation taught it
wrong. I am speaking of teaching our children Biblical principals of respect, integrity
and godly principals in the home. Basic principals of godly living. Live it and teach
others from the Word of God.

Paul posed the question that except a man first know how to take care of his own
home, how can he take care of the house of God.

Falla39

We agree, Falla. The passage is relevant for the church, and should be taught. The principles that are in that passage are timeless. I agree that I Corinthians 11 are not the "teachings of LS", but rather the controversy surrounds the teachings of LS regarding I Corinthians 11. LS aside, the passage, like the rest of God's Word, is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness.

I DO believe that there are some older people who have taught *it* wrong, applied to any particular topic, not just this one. They said the same thing about THEIR elder generation. Saying that you disagree with someone is not disrespectful unless it's done disrespectfully. One of the things I really appreciate about my mother (and my father, too, when he was alive) is her ability to have a conversation with me and not get upset if I question the "sacred cows." She doesn't get mad and act like I'm going to backslide just because I want to talk about something. Unfortunately, that IS the reaction of many elder ministers when young people have questions, and it's the WRONG reaction. It actually makes the problem worse, because then that younger generation will go elsewhere for answers. I don't do that to my children--if they ask me a question, I answer it as best I can, no matter how shocking the question. You know that a lot of ministers get angry when the question is posed--they don't care about the motivation. IMO, that's a combination of pride, and a fear of the question.

Bottom line, if a person fears to have his views questioned or examined, he'd better start questioning and examining his views himself.