The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save - Page 6

Pressing-On · #51 03-30-2010, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig

But, what about the people back in the Bible days - - they didn't have the Bible to go "study" out from other writings. Do we not complicate things sometimes?

Girl, if we operated in the humility of the NT Church, you'd know why they didn't need things written down at the beginning. Besides, Paul wrote out instructions to the churches and had the letters passed around later.

Sam · #52 03-30-2010, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

...
Well, yes some do. They say you don't need the HG to be saved, only for empowerment, which makes no sense, IMO.
...

I don't think anyone on here would say that we don't need the Holy Spirit to be saved. Some of us distinguish between a birth of the Spirit when the Spirit comes in to dwell and a subsequent baptism in the Spirit when the Spirit comes upon to fill and empower.

Jeffrey · #53 03-30-2010, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Not just, but I can't say "everything" that is written in the Epistles is in Acts, obviously. I was meaning salvation and the example of the operation of the gifts are there, the more spiritual things of the NT church. The Epistles speak of these things, but there is more detail in Acts and them some further instructions in other places like I Cor 12, etc. But, the basis of where to begin, after it was arranged, would be in Acts. I'm not going to go to Romans to find out how to be saved. If I read that I need to "call on His name", I'm going to study that out to see what it entails. Hence, I find more detail in Acts 2.

Then we've made progress

So are you saying all that is written on salvation is exhaustive in Acts? Romans is only reiterating explanations of Acts? John is only mimicking the authoritative Acts? "More spiritual things?" Meaning?

I'd challenge you that there is more in Acts concerning the activity of the Spirit, the movement among people, groups and congregations, but there is not more in Acts with regard to theology, teaching, instruction, etc..

Why wouldn't you go to Romans to learn how to be saved? Why such prejudice? Where do you get that from? If you want to know Paul's thoughts on salvation, you ought to read all of Paul's letters if that's important to you -- but don't twist and distort Paul's words into Luke's. The truth is, Luke says very little on "how to" anything. He is telling a story. A beautiful story. What a tragedy that we view this book as the Ultimate Creed of all Faith. That's insecurity and dishonesty at the core. Is Paul so ignorant not to articulate fully what he means by salvation? Really? Is Luke's focus in Acts to show us how to be saved? Are you sure??? I challenge you to study Acts asking some of those questions first.

Jeffrey · #54 03-30-2010, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig

But, what about the people back in the Bible days - - they didn't have the Bible to go "study" out from other writings. Do we not complicate things sometimes?

Paul must've been an awful failure. The biggest pen of the NT, but he couldn't tell anyone how to be saved. He needed Luke's story to complete his own testimony. He says he wasn't ashamed of the Gospel, but maybe the tongues as necessary for salvation part he was ashamed. What a loser! TIC

Neck · #55 03-30-2010, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I believe this to be false. Obviously Christs death on the cross was the BASIS for our salvation. But Paul never thought anyone would try to segment his teachings like we see today.

How does this doctrine that the cross only saves play out? I suppose that all one must do is believe Christ died on the cross for us.

Paul himself added somethings to this.

8: But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:8-12

Was Paul a heretic? He said we must CONFESS the Lord Jesus in order to be saved!

He also said we must CALL ON HIS NAME in order to be saved!

All part of the same Mike all part of the same!

Jeffrey · #56 03-30-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Girl, if we operated in the humility of the NT Church, you'd know why they didn't need things written down at the beginning. Besides, Paul wrote out instructions to the churches and had the letters passed around later.

Tell me about the NT church humility in the context of Renda's remarks.

Later? What did you mean by that emphasis. Can we both agree that Paul's letters were written before your How-to manual called "Acts?" I'll let you look it up first (sarcasm of course)

Michael The Disciple · #57 03-30-2010, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neck

All part of the same Mike all part of the same!

Some of us believe Acts 2:38 works the same way!

Jeffrey · #58 03-30-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Some of us believe Acts 2:38 works the same way!

You make Acts 2:38 a doctrinal creed, when it was never intended as such. In doing so, you frustrate yourself by making a circle fit like a square in the rest of scripture. That a believer should be baptized and is promised the Spirit is understood as part of Luke's fast-moving story. When a person is saved is not answered, but we can't find it any clearer than by Paul, who labors on this subject in Romans. It's not incomplete writing he gives us.

Neck · #59 03-30-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiyahstarter

Believe only?

Does the devil believe?

The Devil believes and trembles but is also a being for which Christ did not die? So for the Devil to believe in an event that has nothing to do with his soul-less being does not attach any merit, to say that if the Devil believes and is not saved. Then we must do more than believe to start our salvation experience is nothing near the truth. A demon and a human are not subject to the same laws nor the does Grace or Mercy apply to a demon. The main problem with the Devil's belief is he is still holding out hope that he will not get his in the end.

Neck · #60 03-30-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Some of us believe Acts 2:38 works the same way!

The difference is many make the beginning of a true believers salvation an election a sure thing only after completing the 3 Acts in Acts 2:38. Some believe that the seal is applied by believing that Christ died for our sins and repenting for our sins. Then the opportunity to walk into the waters of Baptism and to seek the spirit is part of the Christian experience.