The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save - Page 12

mizpeh · #**111** 03-30-2010, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

My experience was quite different.

Was your experience scriptural? I can find examples of believers in the Bible who had the same experience of speaking with tongues when they received the Holy Spirit.

Pressing-On · #**112** 03-30-2010, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I knew I received the Spirit when I spoke with tongues also. It happened with me and a friend praying in my apartment.

Awesome and amen.

Apparently, the Apostles recognized that Cornelius and the other Gentiles of Caesarea had also received the Holy Ghost for they heard them speak in tongues. Acts 10:44-46.

Same thing happening in Ephesus. Acts 19:6. Some have said that because they prophesied that was "another" sign that they had received the Holy Ghost. Not buying that one.

notofworks · #**113** 03-30-2010, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Was your experience scriptural?

Absolutely!

When he said "living water," he was speaking of the Spirit, who would be given to everyone believing in him. But the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet entered into his glory. (John 7:39)

And now you also have heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago. (Ephesians 1:13)

All who proclaim that Jesus is the Son of God have God living in them, and they live in God. (I John 4:15)

mizpeh · #**114** 03-30-2010, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

Absolutely!

When he said "living water," he was speaking of the Spirit, who would be given to everyone believing in him. But the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet entered into his glory. (John 7:39)

And now you also have heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago. (Ephesians 1:13)

All who proclaim that Jesus is the Son of God have God living in them, and they live in God. (I John 4:15)

The disciples believed on the risen Christ yet they didn't receive the Spirit until the day of Pentecost.

The Samaritans believed in Acts 8, yet they didn't receive the Spirit when they believed.

Same with the disciples in Ephesus in Acts 19. They believed when Paul told them about Christ and then were baptized. Why did Paul have to lay hands on them and pray for them to receive the Holy Spirit?

Just somethings for you to consider. I've got to go. God bless you!!!

Pressing-On · #**115** 03-30-2010, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

Absolutely!

When he said "living water," he was speaking of the Spirit, who would be given to everyone believing in him. But the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet entered into his glory. (John 7:39)

And now you also have heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago. (Ephesians 1:13)

All who proclaim that Jesus is the Son of God have God living in them, and they live in God. (I John 4:15)

Except that the Word identifies the "promise of the spirit" as something you would see and hear. That is a visible evidence that it would occur.

Acts 1:4 "And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me."

Acts 2:33 "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear." - referring back to verse 4.

notofworks · #**116** 03-30-2010, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Except that the Word identifies the "promise of the spirit" as something you would see and hear. That is a visible evidence that it would occur.

Acts 1:4 "And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me."

Acts 2:33 "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear." - referring back to verse 4.

Both you and Mizpeh answer my scriptural basis with scriptures that seem to prove your view. But neither of you address the three verses I cited. I'd like to hear how you think those verses reconcile with your views.

Pressing-On · #**117** 03-31-2010, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

Both you and Mizpeh answer my scriptural basis with scriptures that seem to prove your view. But neither of you address the three verses I cited. I'd like to hear how you think those verses reconcile with your views.

It is simply that I identify the Holy Ghost as evidence of speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance. Any scriptural reference to the Spirit would identify that as the same - I John 4:15; John 7:39.

If you study the word "promise" you will find this is true. You will run across his promise of salvation, promise to include the Gentiles and the promise of the Holy Ghost/His Spirit.

And now I have to run - Good night!

pelathais · #**118** 03-31-2010, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

No, the entire NT has to be harmonized. Your assumption that our approach to soteriology demands that Acts be placed before the Epistles doesn't make sense since the epistles coincide with the historical events in the book of Acts.

It would be like taking the history of Israel as written in Samuel 1, 2 and Chronicles 1, 2 and then inserting the writings of the prophets into those history books. We could take Acts and insert Paul's epistles into it. The soteriology would not change.

You were drinking some strong tea tonight Mizzie. I said that I was just wondering out loud about how the arrangement of the books would affect the church through history. Your particular soteriology really didn't emerge until the 20th century.

And since you're so adamant about the chasm betwixt us, I will just assume that your soteriology doesn't include faith in Jesus Christ nor do you believe that His death, burial and resurrection brought about any salvation for you or anyone else.

So then, why do you post to an Apostolic Christian board? Just about everyone here believes that Jesus saved lost sinners and reconciled us back to God by His passion. Even Timmy says something like, "If He was raised from the dead" then He saved us from sin. Why don't you accept this basic element of the Christian faith?

Jesus saves. ... but you're not happy with that?

notofworks · #**119** 03-31-2010, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

It is simply that I identify the Holy Ghost as evidence of speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance. Any scriptural reference to the Spirit would identify that as the same - I John 4:15; John 7:39.

If you study the word "promise" you will find this is true. You will run across his promise of salvation, promise to include the Gentiles and the promise of the Holy Ghost/His Spirit.

And now I have to run - Good night!

And I think the bolded is the key. How can anything be added to the simplicity of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? It seems that one could only assume the statement, "Would be given", is only "predictive". But this couldn't be true, could it? If it is predictive, the prediction doesn't come true in everyone, does it?

And this doesn't explain the absolute and correlating statements found in Ephesians and I John.

I believe the simplicity of these strong and absolute statements are part of the foolish things that confound the wise. Can it really be THAT easy? Surely not, the works-oriented religious person would say.

One of the saddest imageries I have in mind is the memory of someone "seeking" for the Holy Ghost and for months, even years, coming up empty. It's impossible for me to connect the dots of that imagery and the fierceness of Paul's "I'm writing this in BIG letters" statement, when he said it's by the cross of Christ alone that we are saved.

Pressing-On · #**120** 03-31-2010, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

And I think the bolded is the key. How can anything be added to the simplicity of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? It seems that one could only assume the statement, "Would be given", is only "predictive". But this couldn't be true, could it? If it is predictive, the prediction doesn't come true in everyone, does it?

And this doesn't explain the absolute and correlating statements found in Ephesians and I John.

I believe the simplicity of these strong and absolute statements are part of the foolish things that confound the wise. Can it really be THAT easy? Surely not, the works-oriented religious person would say.

One of the saddest imageries I have in mind is the memory of someone "seeking" for the Holy Ghost and for months, even years, coming up empty. It's impossible for me to connect the dots of that imagery and the fierceness of Paul's "I'm writing this in BIG letters" statement, when he said it's by the cross of Christ alone that we are saved.

NOW, after all that you typed here, my only question would be - "But, what does the Word of God say?"