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  #351  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:06 PM
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Re: The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
I feel like I'm younger than you, so I don't know how to account for your incredulity.
LOL! Just ignore me. That always works.
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  #352  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:25 PM
Jeffrey Jeffrey is offline
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Re: The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
I've been introduced to people like that or had them pointed out to me though I haven't ever had close enough dealings with anyone to ewven pretend to know the details of their lives.

I remember one particular man who had been "seeking" for something like 7 or 8 years when he and his family moved from out of state and started attending services with us. He received his experience after just a few weeks. This of course boosted our pride and caused several people to exclaim that we had some sort of "power" that other churches lacked.

But that thinking really gnawed at me. The man was seeking salvation (in my mind at the time "tongues" was the evidence of salvation). Why would God withhold His salvation until the family came out to our great fellowship? Did everyone in the world need to pass through our doors just to "get saved?"
That, Pel, is the question that can't nor shouldn't go away. We have no examples of God withholding salvation from anyone who came to him in faith. The idea of chasing tongues as a symbol of salvation is almost sickening.
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  #353  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:42 PM
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Re: The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
Jesus says, "Come unto me..." This is His request for "action" on the part of those who hear His call. When I respond, "Lord I believe..." I am acting and verbs can be used to describe what I am doing.

In the New Testament there is a long debate about the "Works of the Law." These "Works of the Law" were actions that the children of Israel did in obedience to the 613 commandments left by Moses.

It is a fact that both of the above involve verbs to describe the "action" of the believer. Repentance - or "Coming to Jesus" is not a "Work of the Law" however. Moses never commanded anybody to turn to Jesus Christ for salvation. Though the Law and the Prophets did testify of Jesus Christ, the idea of converting from a life of sin and unbelief to a life of faith in the Messiah was never one of the 613 commandments nor a part of any of the later Talmudic traditions attached to them.

The same can be said about water baptism, as I just mentioned to Mike (above). In conclusion, neither repentance nor baptism are "works" in the sense that the New Testament uses the word. "Works" in the NT has a specific theological definition. In common vernacular today, the Evangelical movement has applied the meaning in a wider use. I am not an "Evangelical" (please notice the upper case "E"). I am theologically an Arminian and so are all of the "One Steppers" who preceded me.

We are made free from the penalty for our sins by repentance. Baptism accomplishes something as well when we "imitate" the risen Lord and begin our new life (1 Peter 3:21 - "baptism saves us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ which results in a good conscience toward God").

Notice what Paul says in Romans 6:18 - "Being then made free from sin..."

How were these people "made free from sin?" See the previous verse, Romans 6:17. They were made free by the grace of God and not the "works of the law." Moses didn't make them free, Jesus did.

Now, having been "made free from sin" - can we say that they are in a condition of having the atonement? (Romans 5:11-18). They have the atonement and they are justified by Jesus Christ. Their sins are "paid" by the blood of the Lamb.

So... (the question that Paul is addressing)... what comes next? Next, they are to become "slaves" again (servants)... however, this time they are to be the "servants of righteousness" and not the "servants of sin."

They are saved, now they're supposed to "act like it." These new actions of righteousness however will not save them. They are already saved by the grace of God. These new actions will preserve them, they will serve as a witness to the lost, and they will benefit both other members of the church and members of the community at large.

But they (and we!) do these works of righteousness NOT to get save, NOT to show that we are more holy than anyone else. We do these actions as "slaves" (servants) of our Lord Who performed the greatest charitable gift of all when He laid down His life for us.
Thanks for taking the time to respond, Pel. Didn't want to ignore your post after you spent the time to type it out. I don't have much else to say on the subject. I will have to lean toward agreeing with MB on this one.
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  #354  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:43 PM
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Re: The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
"Crisis experience" and "Jesus Bomb"...... Yes, "Jesus Bomb" sounds even more stupid. But, "Crisis experience" is a very close second.
I KNEW you were going to love "Jesus Bomb"!!!! I just sat back and waited for you to show up!


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  #355  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:48 PM
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Re: The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

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Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* View Post
I KNEW you were going to love "Jesus Bomb"!!!! I just sat back and waited for you to show up!


Girl! You know that was the bomb!

What an ignorant thing to say - "Jesus Bomb"!!!!!! I thought "crisis experience" was pretty ignorant, but that one took the cake...... and the icing and the candles and the plate and the tablecloth and........

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  #356  
Old 04-01-2010, 07:21 PM
Jeffrey Jeffrey is offline
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Re: The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Girl! You know that was the bomb!

What an ignorant thing to say - "Jesus Bomb"!!!!!! I thought "crisis experience" was pretty ignorant, but that one took the cake...... and the icing and the candles and the plate and the tablecloth and........

Actually a very popular (conservative) Pentecostal preacher describes the Holy Spirit baptism as a "Jesus bomb" for your information.

It AGAIN wasn't a pejorative term. Sheesh...

Crisis experience ignorant? That's an extremely unlearned thing to say. Read a theology textbook a few times. They have esoteric language that you don't hear everyday. I'm not brainy know-it-all but some of it bleeds into my vocabulary (I think that's the point). So instead of not understanding the word and flipping out and calling non-pejorative terms "stupid" and "ignorant" I suggest you take a moment and figure it out.
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  #357  
Old 04-01-2010, 07:26 PM
berkeley berkeley is offline
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Re: The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

Maybe that's why people don't get "it." (I hate that terminology) They were seeking tongues. When I was 14 yrs old I began to seek after tongues and nothing happened. I did not attend or even know what an Apostolic church was. When I visited a UPC (9/17/97) my focus changed from seeking tongues to asking for the Holy Spirit. I was a low down dirty sinner at the age of 15. All I did was weep for three church services. On the evening of the third service I stopped weeping. I began to worship Jesus and I asked Him for the Holy Spirit. He answered the prayer.
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  #358  
Old 04-01-2010, 07:33 PM
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Re: The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Actually a very popular (conservative) Pentecostal preacher describes the Holy Spirit baptism as a "Jesus bomb" for your information.

It AGAIN wasn't a pejorative term. Sheesh...

Crisis experience ignorant? That's an extremely unlearned thing to say. Read a theology textbook a few times. They have esoteric language that you don't hear everyday. I'm not brainy know-it-all but some of it bleeds into my vocabulary (I think that's the point). So instead of not understanding the word and flipping out and calling non-pejorative terms "stupid" and "ignorant" I suggest you take a moment and figure it out.
Well now, let me see how that works for me....hmmmmm....

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Crisis Experience."



Let's try that again:

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Jesus Bomb."

Catchy!!!!!!! Dude!!!! I think I like that!!!!



Go read whatever you want. I'm just going to read the Bible. After all, I'm not always the sharpest knife in the drawer - ya know wut aw mean?!!
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  #359  
Old 04-01-2010, 07:34 PM
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Re: The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

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Originally Posted by Berkley View Post
Maybe that's why people don't get "it." (I hate that terminology) They were seeking tongues. When I was 14 yrs old I began to seek after tongues and nothing happened. I did not attend or even know what an Apostolic church was. When I visited a UPC (9/17/97) my focus changed from seeking tongues to asking for the Holy Spirit. I was a low down dirty sinner at the age of 15. All I did was weep for three church services. On the evening of the third service I stopped weeping. I began to worship Jesus and I asked Him for the Holy Spirit. He answered the prayer.
Amen!

We need to seek the "Giver" and not the "Gift"!
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  #360  
Old 04-01-2010, 07:50 PM
Jeffrey Jeffrey is offline
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Re: The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Well now, let me see how that works for me....hmmmmm....

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Crisis Experience."



Let's try that again:

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Jesus Bomb."

Catchy!!!!!!! Dude!!!! I think I like that!!!!



Go read whatever you want. I'm just going to read the Bible. After all, I'm not always the sharpest knife in the drawer - ya know wut aw mean?!!
You are absolutely hilarious. No one is "replacing scripture" its esoteric language used to contextualize and frame discussions in academic terms. We are speaking "of" theology, not quoting scripture.
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