The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Michael! You were so close! I'm disappointed in this backsliding of yours.

Pel,

Dont fret! I am indeed a warrior of grace. Note what the Apostle says grace does:

11: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12: Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Titus 2:13

It both brings salvation and teaches us to live a life of obedience towards Yeshua Messiah.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Pel,

Dont fret! I am indeed a warrior of grace. Note what the Apostle says grace does:

11: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12: Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Titus 2:13

It both brings salvation and teaches us to live a life of obedience towards Yeshua Messiah.

NOW, NOW MICHAEL.... how dare you bring your legalism into this. You make God's grace noneffect by that teaching.... (sarcasm) Teaching us to do that which brings life.... oh come on didn't you know you are saved only by the work of the cross which is something he did and that you just stand there and God just gives you a eschatological acquittal RIGHT AT THE POINT! Works are meaningless in judgment... by works NO MAN IS JUSTIFIED... blah blah which is taken out of context. You have no standing before God by works and works don't effect your eternal standing..... (more sarcasm) LOL!

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

NOW, NOW MICHAEL.... how dare you bring your legalism into this. You make God's grace noneffect by that teaching.... (sarcasm) Teaching us to do that which brings life.... oh come on didn't you know you are saved only by the work of the cross which is something he did and that you just stand there and God just gives you a eschatological acquittal RIGHT AT THE POINT! Works are meaningless in judgment... by works NO MAN IS JUSTIFIED... blah blah which is taken out of context. You have no standing before God by works and works don't effect your eternal standing..... (more sarcasm) LOL!

Minus the sarcasm, this was a great post

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Minus the sarcasm, this was a great post

which is why you negate the teachings of Christ and have grabbed reformed doctrine.

[notofworks]

Any of you care to tell me, straight up, that your three steps are ABSOLUTELY, necessary for salvation and without these steps, there is no access to heaven?

It seems like everyone runs when the "steps" are put to this test.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

which is why you negate the teachings of Christ and have grabbed reformed doctrine.

From RCC, all us Protestants are of a 'Reformed' nature.

No, I'm not a Calvinist. I'm not even overly concerned with what I'm called. I'm soaked and convinced in the writings of the NT, it's power, it's beauty and it's deliverance.

Since you mention it, I can't think of a position any closer to the words of Jesus. I'm saved because he called and I believed. As a consequence of my belief and faith, I've continued to respond to Him, have grown in Him, am perfect in Him, and will eventually be taken away with Him.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

From RCC, all us Protestants are of a 'Reformed' nature.

No, I'm not a Calvinist. I'm not even overly concerned with what I'm called. I'm soaked and convinced in the writings of the NT, it's power, it's beauty and it's deliverance.

Since you mention it, I can't think of a position any closer to the words of Jesus. I'm saved because he called and I believed. As a consequence of my belief and faith, I've continued to respond to Him, have grown in Him, am perfect in Him, and will eventually be taken away with Him.

ROFL... and you do that so straight typed... as if "believe" doesn't have a authors context to what is meant. You are saved if you "endure" within Christ. Not by a single moment in time. Faith is a present participle active or present progrssive... not one moment but a continous aspect with the "whole" in view which would be just like Abraham...

Throughout this passage an important truth is presented that
again might be missed by many English translations. When
Jesus describes the one who comes to him and who believes
in him (3:16, 5:24, 6:35, 37, 40, 47, etc.), he uses the present
tense to describe this coming, believing, or, in other passages,
hearing or seeing. The present tense refers to a continuous,
on-going action. The Greek contrasts this kind of action
against the aorist tense, which is a point action, a single
action in time that is not on-going.... The wonderful promises
that are provided by Christ are not for those who do not
truly and continuously believe. The faith that saves is a living
faith, a faith that always looks to Christ as Lord and Savior.
(White pg 10-11) JAMES WHITE "Drawn by the Father"


Dana and Mantey "A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament"
likewise explain the Greek present tense has a primary meaning of action in
progress. Dana and Mantey explain the present progressive (active) tense

"The fundamental significance of the present tense is the idea
of progress. It is the linear tense... the progressive force of the
present tense should always be considered as primary, especially
with reference to the potential moods, which in the
nature of the case do not need any ‘present punctiliar’
tense..."

There are three varieties of the present tense in which its fundamental
idea of progress is especially patent. Under the Progressive
Present…[t]his use is manifestly nearest the root
idea of the tense. It signifies action in progress, or state of
persistence….

Rydberg likewise explains:
Present. The present tense denotes an action in the present
time with continuing aspect.

Thus Abraham just like everyone else and ACCORDING TO JAMES sees "believed" in the continous view or outlook from a narrative standpoint of what was known of the future. Thus he "believed".... which is in view of the continous aspect not just a moment in time. Which we see right after Gen 15:6 him doing what God said and God making the "land covenant" thus he was believing as Gen 15:6 as he was in Gen 12 all the way to Isaac.

[notofworks]

Legalist,

Is your way, the way of following 3 distinct steps, the ONLY way to salvation and an eternity in heaven?

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Legalist,

Is your way, the way of following 3 distinct steps, the ONLY way to salvation and an eternity in heaven?

Not sure exactly what your asking but salvation is about multiple steps or walking thus I don't see "salvation" as 3 steps or one or 10. Are we in covenant with God at 1,2, 3 or 4 etc... Well I could say one step which again is defined by the what the author means or me. Depends on what is meant behind faith. Is faith a single moment or a continous response to obtain. I see it as well does teh Greek as a continous response to obtain just as Abraham is a type. We obtain atonement by faith unto forgiveness which again is a certain context I place on faith. I hear and thus respond in kind to the context of what is said. The context of what is said determines the rest. Repentance, baptism, and the realization of his presence is are all apart of the walk of faith. Each has it's own significance. Faith unto Repentance is the engine by which all else becomes realized. repentance is part of baptism as it is that which we see Christ and turn to be united with him. God's moving upon us by his presence reveals his acceptance. Do I agree with 3 step as many describe it concerning what is expected? Yes! do I agree that is all there is? No! Faith is about a continous response by which GOd judges our hearts and his Spirit bears witness with ours that we are his children. In the end we will be judged faithful, slothful/lukewarm or cold.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Not sure exactly what your asking but salvation is about multiple steps....

I think you do but I'll get more specific. Are the elements of repentance, baptism by immersion in water in the name of Jesus Christ, and the infilling of the Holy Spirit as evidence by speaking in other tongues the ONLY way to heaven/salvation? Separate from the above description, is there any way to heaven/salvation?