The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Ahhhhhh......."Greasy Grace". I love that term.

Yes, those things are "works". Anything that's a "work" is a "work." They're described in James 2 as being a very important thing. But it doesn't enter into the discussion of salvation.

Well, it does, but it shouldn't.

sorry but works clearly is about salvation as our covenant is a contract "to do" to obtain eternal life.. You cannot abide unless "you do" and to abide in covenant with God is necessitated on YOU DOING as HE DID to be in relationship as Abraham was and judged faithful "to obtain" the promise! John 15.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

God's command to not eat of swine etc... is not of the world buta principle issue of order for which certain animals are made and is about basic health of consumption. We do not touch the unclean thing. That is still a principle. nothing directly defiles the Spirit except the heart is what defiles but that which we do touch and handle may bring defilement from the heart. Food in itself does not defile my Spirit but it does have a issue with my health. Thus why God said is is a abomination unto you not him. Spiritual and physical laws are two different things. You should love that which God has given and treat you body as he thought was best by not eating that which he thought was best not to eat. The gospel is about his dying and us doing his will to obtain eternal life likewise. We obtain by contract of obedience which was brought about by HIS sacrifice in which HE became the mediator or administrator of the covenant. Thus IF we do we abide and have assurity of eternal life. If we don't continue to abide we will be judged unfaithful and a wicked servant.

Don't let anyone condemn you by insisting on self-denial. And don't let anyone say you must worship angels, even though they say they have had visions about this. These people claim to be so humble, but their sinful minds have made them proud.


Col 2:19 But they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body. For we are joined together in his body by his strong sinews, and we grow only as we get our nourishment and strength from God.


Col 2:20 You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the evil powers of this world. So why do you keep on following rules of the world, such as,


Col 2:21 "Don't handle, don't eat, don't touch."


Col 2:22 Such rules are mere human teaching about things that are gone as soon as we use them.


Col 2:23 These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, humility, and severe bodily discipline. But they have no effect when it comes to conquering a person's evil thoughts and desires.




There it is, right there. Big as Dallas. (Is Dallas big?)

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

sorry but works clearly is about salvation as our covenant is a contract "to do" to obtain eternal life.. You cannot abide unless "you do" and to abide in covenant with God is necessitated on YOU DOING as HE DID to be in relationship as Abraham was and judged faithful "to obtain" the promise! John 15.

Ok, Illegalist, mostly we're taking playful jabs at each other, here, but seriously.....How does one stay rapture-ready? What if a person misses tithing for two weeks, or says several vulgarities just before a fatal car accident. Yesterday, I was driving on the freeway and suddenly, there was no place to go except drilling a car going 30 mph, and I said.........well, never mind what I said, but it wasn't good. If I had collided and slipped into eternity.....what then?

I guess what I'm getting out, much are our works monitored to "stay saved"?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

But Mfblume thats a diffrent tongues then the Acts account so you guys say. Plus all he is saying is he would rather you prophesieth then speak in an unknown tongue so the chuch will be edified....

Tongues may serve different purposes as in the gift and the INITIAL evidence of Spirit baptism, but nothing in the bible says one purpose demands the hearers to understand the tongues and the other does not.

[KWSS1976]

But the intitial evidence the very first time it happened was an understood language the bible clearly tells us this...so why would the other accounts be any diffrent?????

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Don't let anyone condemn you by insisting on self-denial. And don't let anyone say you must worship angels, even though they say they have had visions about this. These people claim to be so humble, but their sinful minds have made them proud.


Col 2:19 But they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body. For we are joined together in his body by his strong sinews, and we grow only as we get our nourishment and strength from God.


Col 2:20 You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the evil powers of this world. So why do you keep on following rules of the world, such as,


Col 2:21 "Don't handle, don't eat, don't touch."


Col 2:22 Such rules are mere human teaching about things that are gone as soon as we use them.


Col 2:23 These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, humility, and severe bodily discipline. But they have no effect when it comes to conquering a person's evil thoughts and desires.




There it is, right there. Big as Dallas. (Is Dallas big?)

I guess God was a idiot then to give them as law. God didn't know what he was doing. You miss Pauls point and his teaching. Yeah Paul.... God changes his reasoning and opinions. Instruction by genetic code was clearly a thing from God as he only knew of these things! So you are saying God did not detest the eating of these things?

Isa 66:16 For the LORD judges all humanity
with fire and his sword;
the LORD will kill many.
Isa 66:17 "As for those who consecrate and ritually purify themselves so they can follow their leader and worship in the sacred orchards, those who eat the flesh of pigs and other disgusting creatures, like mice — they will all be destroyed together," says the LORD.
Isa 66:18 "I hate their deeds and thoughts! So I am coming to gather all the nations and ethnic groups; they will come and witness my splendor.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Ok, Illegalist, mostly we're taking playful jabs at each other, here, but seriously.....How does one stay rapture-ready? What if a person misses tithing for two weeks, or says several vulgarities just before a fatal car accident. Yesterday, I was driving on the freeway and suddenly, there was no place to go except drilling a car going 30 mph, and I said.........well, never mind what I said, but it wasn't good. If I had collided and slipped into eternity.....what then?

I guess what I'm getting out, much are our works monitored to "stay saved"?

GOd will judge the whole of your works and your life. That is why it is a judgment by deeds. Search out your own salvation with fear and trembling. There is sin that does not lead to death. God is just and he knows who you are and what you are and the complete aspect of your heart. Not just a moment in time but the whole.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

But the intitial evidence the very first time it happened was an understood language the bible clearly tells us this...so why would the other accounts be any diffrent?????

This is ironic. The folks who claim tongues are NOT the initial evidence of Spirit Baptism claim so because the bible does not flatly say it is. Now we see your good self saying that tongues MUST be understood by the listeners, although the bible does not make that stipulation.

The fact is that SOMETIMES someone is present who understands the tongues, which happened with my own father who is German for instance. And I believe God did that for dad. I spoke in tongues and someone present heard me speaking the Pakistani language and told me what I said. But in other cases, there is no one present who understands the tongues. In either case, the bible may give instances of both sorts of occurrences, but it never stated anywhere that any form of tongues MUST be understood by hearers.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

I guess God was a idiot then to give them as law. God didn't know what he was doing. You miss Pauls point and his teaching. Yeah Paul.... God changes his reasoning and opinions. Instruction by genetic code was clearly a thing from God as he only knew of these things! So you are saying God did not detest the eating of these things?

Isa 66:16 For the LORD judges all humanity
with fire and his sword;
the LORD will kill many.
Isa 66:17 "As for those who consecrate and ritually purify themselves so they can follow their leader and worship in the sacred orchards, those who eat the flesh of pigs and other disgusting creatures, like mice — they will all be destroyed together," says the LORD.
Isa 66:18 "I hate their deeds and thoughts! So I am coming to gather all the nations and ethnic groups; they will come and witness my splendor.

Bolded question......Yes, I'm sure as heck saying that, at the time of the writing of Colossians, God did not detest the eating of those things. Didn't then, didn't now.

Are you seriously saying that we're obligated to practice the diet of the Old Testament? Are you seriously saying we're not supposed to eat pork?? Surely not. Are you a tongue-talking, three-step, Seventh Day Adventist? I can list quite a few things in the Law you don't obey.

And you ran off and left me with that thing about genetic code. What verse is that in?

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

GOd will judge the whole of your works and your life. That is why it is a judgment by deeds. Search out your own salvation with fear and trembling. There is sin that does not lead to death. God is just and he knows who you are and what you are and the complete aspect of your heart. Not just a moment in time but the whole.

THAT'S EXACTLY THE ENTIRE POINT OF GRACE! It's the position of your heart, not the steps of legalism!!