Hubris. Pride. MB is hitting the heart of the matter again.
I do stand with Paul, cautioning the community to not look like mad men. To be aware of that. To present the Gospel with clarity, sincerity and in love.
However, that doesn't mean this whole thing is tidy and neat. There will be "messes."
Hubris. Pride. MB is hitting the heart of the matter again.
I do stand with Paul, cautioning the community to not look like mad men. To be aware of that. To present the Gospel with clarity, sincerity and in love.
However, that doesn't mean this whole thing is tidy and neat. There will be "messes."
Yes--and we have to deal with those "messes" compassionately. And on that note--I'm going to bed!
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
I'm not going to criticize someone for being bold about their faith, even if it isn't politically correct or socially acceptable in today's society.
Nor will I criticize someone for being overwhelmed. Whether by the Holy Ghost or by their own nerves, who can say?
This is a case of over-zealousness, but not pure stupidity. I refuse to participate in shredding her prayer or over-analyzing her actions. We've all been guilty of doing the right thing at the wrong time, or making poor judgment calls. Oh--maybe that was just me--Sorry.
Am I the only person who has truly been pressed upon by God to say or do something, but forgot to temper it with His wisdom?
I expect zeal from young people. Sometimes it works out, and other times they end up looking silly. Either way, it's not the death knell--although it COULD be the death of this girl's walk with God if her well-intentioned ambition is slammed too hard by fellow Christians.
Do we only appreciate boldness if someone is able to walk away looking cool and suave? I'm not sure God would share that view. We need to be very careful about judging these things. Just because WE feel awkward or uncomfortable about something doesn't mean God does. And just because people in the audience felt awkward or uncomfortable doesn't mean God did.
Neither good intentions nor sincerity give any of us a free pass to do things that can be eternally damaging to the cause of Christ. We have been made stewards of the gospel of Christ and it's a great responsibility.
This isn't necessarily a moratorium on this girl as an individual, but rather, an opportunity to discuss the strategies that some employee in an attempt to evangelize others. I don't think we should be hindered from the discussion by considering only her sincerity. Jesus described people who were very active in religious activities that wouldn't be recognized on "that day" so sincerity doesn't equivocate Godly approval.
We have a local "night spot" that includes restaurants and theaters. Sure enough, each Friday evening, a complete nut stands on a box with his bible harshly condemning sinners, yelling at those who will be "fornicating" later that evening. He's been taken to court, won his case, and meanwhile he has set back the cause of Christ another century or so.
What about the fellow who "preaches" outside Joel Osteen's church every Sunday, calling the Lakewood folks to "see the truth" as they exit? Is THAT ok? It also happens to Greg Laurie each time he speaks. Are these people ok? At what point are Christ Followers required to stop their antics and follow the biblical prescription for reaching our world by displaying the same love, peace, and grace that Jesus had? He did, after all, say, "As the Father has sent me, so I send you" and the things he sends us to do are NOT things that are useless attempts to sabotage the efforts of others, whether it be a graduation, movie, or church service.
Aside from the shaking and falling, what about the repenting? She repented, not only for herself, but on behalf of her fellow graduates, of the sin of idolatry! What's up with that?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I thought by watching this video that she was honestly either under the spirit and or she has some tremors from a health issue. But it seemed to me to be a manifestation of what the spirit was doing. I know some shake, some laugh, some moan or wail. That is how I saw it.
If you are talking about the video NOW posted, she shakes like that all the time, it wasn't just at church. And besides, where do we see this in the bible? She looked like she had a neurological disorder
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
If you are talking about the video NOW posted, she shakes like that all the time, it wasn't just at church. And besides, where do we see this in the bible? She looked like she had a neurological disorder
I don't believe she does this all the time. It was presented as something she's doing "Under the power of the Spirit."
NOW, I think we take ourselves too serious to think we are "eternally damaging." God is Sovereign. You know that and preach that more than anyone. One of Pentecostalisms vulnerabilities is this obsession that the task of saving the world is ours, rather than allowing God to use us as part of the process. The flip side are some historic Calvinists brothers who have accepted the Sovereignty of God to the point of passiveness in evangelism. Not good either.
Jesus' rebuke of people on "that day" is not a parallel of people being bold and making others uncomfortable. It was people he "didn't know." If you look at his audience, it is probably more telling who Jesus may be referring to.
Your local nut. I get it. I understand. Those guys are a shame. Most of society just walks right past them or gets some free entertainment out of it. I'm not in community with them, can't control them. Same with these other protesters.
I wouldn't say in a blanket way that Christ would never have us use a podium, be it a football player in an interview, or a graduation stage, for his glory. There's no rule book for that. I agree the girl's move probably wasn't the best. Regardless of result, maybe someone needed to hear that? Don't know. My response was same as yours. Didnt like it. Felt embarrassed. Felt uncomfortable. But her words were piercing... God knows who was there and who wasn't... even at the risk of someone's pride watching on YouTube. My point is... she may be a lunatic or the real thing that just sort of fumbled it up. I don't know... those we are in community with we can get a better gauge and more ably help fulfill what God wants in a respectful way... and in love. (We at least certainly can't accuse the girl of that -- I felt or heard no hatred.)
Neither good intentions nor sincerity give any of us a free pass to do things that can be eternally damaging to the cause of Christ. We have been made stewards of the gospel of Christ and it's a great responsibility.
This isn't necessarily a moratorium on this girl as an individual, but rather, an opportunity to discuss the strategies that some employee in an attempt to evangelize others. I don't think we should be hindered from the discussion by considering only her sincerity. Jesus described people who were very active in religious activities that wouldn't be recognized on "that day" so sincerity doesn't equivocate Godly approval.
We have a local "night spot" that includes restaurants and theaters. Sure enough, each Friday evening, a complete nut stands on a box with his bible harshly condemning sinners, yelling at those who will be "fornicating" later that evening. He's been taken to court, won his case, and meanwhile he has set back the cause of Christ another century or so.
What about the fellow who "preaches" outside Joel Osteen's church every Sunday, calling the Lakewood folks to "see the truth" as they exit? Is THAT ok? It also happens to Greg Laurie each time he speaks. Are these people ok? At what point are Christ Followers required to stop their antics and follow the biblical prescription for reaching our world by displaying the same love, peace, and grace that Jesus had? He did, after all, say, "As the Father has sent me, so I send you" and the things he sends us to do are NOT things that are useless attempts to sabotage the efforts of others, whether it be a graduation, movie, or church service.
We saw The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe on opening day. When it was over, someone stood up at the front of the theater and started preaching/yelling at us. I couldn't understand much of what she said, but I caught "...just like Aslan, Jesus something something something...". Oh man, you should have seen all the people running to the front, falling on their faces, crying out to..... Nah. You didn't fall for that, did you!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
We saw The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe on opening day. When it was over, someone stood up at the front of the theater and started preaching/yelling at us. I couldn't understand much of what she said, but I caught "...just like Aslan, Jesus something something something...". Oh man, you should have seen all the people running to the front, falling on their faces, crying out to..... Nah. You didn't fall for that, did you!
We saw The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe on opening day. When it was over, someone stood up at the front of the theater and started preaching/yelling at us. I couldn't understand much of what she said, but I caught "...just like Aslan, Jesus something something something...". Oh man, you should have seen all the people running to the front, falling on their faces, crying out to..... Nah. You didn't fall for that, did you!
BTW, she actually started before the movie was really over. People around her shushed her, and the little epilogue scene continued. When that was over, she started again. Think the Spirit led her? Does the Spirit make mistakes like that? You'd think He could get the timing right!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
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