What do you think about this prayer?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Timmy

BTW, she actually started before the movie was really over. People around her shushed her, and the little epilogue scene continued. When that was over, she started again. Think the Spirit led her? Does the Spirit make mistakes like that? You'd think He could get the timing right!

What do I think? I think she got it wrong. The Spirit leading is not Spirit possessing, so we mustn't blame poor judgement on the Spirit. This is an obvious deduction from 1 Cor 14.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Hubris.
...
However, that doesn't mean this whole thing is tidy and neat. There will be "messes."

light attracts bugs

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Aside from the shaking and falling, what about the repenting? She repented, not only for herself, but on behalf of her fellow graduates, of the sin of idolatry! What's up with that?

That's called identificational intercession.
One person intercedes and asks for forgiveness for the whole group.
Daniel did it in Daniel 9:1-20 in 539 BC
Ezra did it in Ezra 9:1-15 around 458 BC
Nehemiah did it in Nehemiah 9:1-38 in 445 BC
Some of us do it in 2010 for our city or our church or our country.

[Sam]

This prayer has been circulated on the internet and has been attributed to Billy Graham and by some to radio commentator Paul Harvey. It actually was delivered by Rev. Joe Wright, senior pastor of the 2,500 member Central Christian Church in Wichita, Kansas. He had been asked to deliver the opening prayer in the Kansas House of Representatives on January 26, 1996. He offered the following “Prayer of Repentance” which was a version of a prayer written in 1995 by Bob Russell, who had offered it at the Kentucky Governor’s Breakfast in Frankfort.

Heavenly Father,
We come before You today to ask Your forgiveness and seek Your direction and guidance. We know Your Word says, ''Woe to those who call evil good,'' but that's exactly what we have done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and inverted our values. We confess that; we have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and called it pluralism; We have worshipped other gods and called it multiculturalism; We have endorsed perversion and called it an alternative lifestyle; We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery; We have neglected the needy and called it self preservation; We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare; We have killed our unborn and called it choice; We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable; We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self-esteem; We have abused power and called it political savvy; We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition; We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression; We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment. Search us, O God, and know our hearts today; try us and see if there be some wicked way in us; cleanse us from every sin and set us free. Guide and bless these men and women who have been sent here by the people of this state and who have been ordained by You, to govern this great state of Kansas. Grant them your wisdom to rule and may their decisions direct us to the center of Your Will.

I ask in in the name of your Son, The Living Savior, Jesus Christ

He read the prayer and then departed and didn’t realize what kind of a stir he created until his secretary called him on his car phone to ask him what he had done.

Reportedly, one member walked out of the House in protest, three others gave speeches critical of the prayer, and another blasted Rev. Wright’s “message of intolerance.” The House Minority Leader asserted that the prayer “reflects the extreme, radical views that continue to dominate the House Republican agenda...”

His staff stopped counting the telephone calls that came in from every state and several foreign countries after the first 6,500 or so. The calls were overwhelmingly in favor of the prayer. He was asked to appear on some radio shows and there were television and print news reports. There was further controversy when it was read by the chaplain coordinator in the Nebraska legislature the following month.

source:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/prayernation.asp

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Wasn't the the Holy Spirit moving?

The Spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets. Those who operate in the Spirit must not loose control. The Spirit is subject to our control and only empowers as we permit it. Those who loose all control under spiritual "moving" are spiritually immature.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The Spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets. Those who operate in the Spirit must not loose control. The Spirit is subject to our control and only empowers as we permit it. Those who loose all control under spiritual "moving" are spiritually immature.

Well said. If it's not so, then simply anything can be passed off as being "in the Spirit".

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqLvV21tsdw&

*******DISCLAIMER******
You may not want to read the comments below, IF YOU CLICK THE LINK and go to YOUTUBE.COM because they are VERY harsh and vulgar in most cases***************************************

The reason I post this is to ask if you think that public displays of affection to God like this does more to help or hurt us Christians as a whole? What are your feelings about this type of video? This lady begans to speak in tongues and falls out in the spirit at a secular graduation. Sorry if this was posted before I am just getting back to posting after a LONG vacation, a vacation by choice. Hopefully this is not seen as offensive to anyone I jsut want this to be a good discussion on public displays of affection to Christ.

I feel sorry for the girl. What she did was crazy and with video of it will be around forever. But I guarantee she had the respect of at least a few classmates, not because they were Christians or thought this one incident was amazing, but because throughout highschool I'm sure that girl displayed her faith and its strength and this graduation prayer was probably the grand finale of all that. All her classmates already knew she was a little off and a little crazy in devotion to Jesus but I guarantee many of them respected it.

That being said, I don't blame the girl for this. I blame the church system that constantly emphasizes public boldness and those kind of "spirit filled" displays. You see I don't believe that girl heard what was being preached to her wrong, I believe she heard it perfectly clear. I believe everyone else that heard those same messages as her also heard them clear but were either too afraid to make themselves a fool or too content with church as usual.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by jfrog

...
That being said, I don't blame the girl for this. I blame the church system that constantly emphasizes public boldness and those kind of "spirit filled" displays. You see I don't believe that girl heard what was being preached to her wrong, I believe she heard it perfectly clear. I believe everyone else that heard those same messages as her also heard them clear but were either too afraid to make themselves a fool or too content with church as usual.

Sorta like the man parading down the street in a sandwich board sign. On the front it said, "I'm a fool for Christ." On the back it said, "Whose fool are you?"

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I feel sorry for the girl. What she did was crazy and with video of it will be around forever. But I guarantee she had the respect of at least a few classmates, not because they were Christians or thought this one incident was amazing, but because throughout highschool I'm sure that girl displayed her faith and its strength and this graduation prayer was probably the grand finale of all that. All her classmates already knew she was a little off and a little crazy in devotion to Jesus but I guarantee many of them respected it.

That being said, I don't blame the girl for this. I blame the church system that constantly emphasizes public boldness and those kind of "spirit filled" displays. You see I don't believe that girl heard what was being preached to her wrong, I believe she heard it perfectly clear. I believe everyone else that heard those same messages as her also heard them clear but were either too afraid to make themselves a fool or too content with church as usual.

Bolded: I completely agree!! The only thing I left out of my rant was the opinion that there's NO WAY this girl wasn't influenced into this.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

NOW, I think we take ourselves too serious to think we are "eternally damaging." God is Sovereign. You know that and preach that more than anyone. One of Pentecostalisms vulnerabilities is this obsession that the task of saving the world is ours, rather than allowing God to use us as part of the process. The flip side are some historic Calvinists brothers who have accepted the Sovereignty of God to the point of passiveness in evangelism. Not good either.

Jesus' rebuke of people on "that day" is not a parallel of people being bold and making others uncomfortable. It was people he "didn't know." If you look at his audience, it is probably more telling who Jesus may be referring to.

Your local nut. I get it. I understand. Those guys are a shame. Most of society just walks right past them or gets some free entertainment out of it. I'm not in community with them, can't control them. Same with these other protesters.

I wouldn't say in a blanket way that Christ would never have us use a podium, be it a football player in an interview, or a graduation stage, for his glory. There's no rule book for that. I agree the girl's move probably wasn't the best. Regardless of result, maybe someone needed to hear that? Don't know. My response was same as yours. Didnt like it. Felt embarrassed. Felt uncomfortable. But her words were piercing... God knows who was there and who wasn't... even at the risk of someone's pride watching on YouTube. My point is... she may be a lunatic or the real thing that just sort of fumbled it up. I don't know... those we are in community with we can get a better gauge and more ably help fulfill what God wants in a respectful way... and in love. (We at least certainly can't accuse the girl of that -- I felt or heard no hatred.)

Jeffrey, I believe the responsibility of this girl's actions lie at the door of "The system" more than the girl. Evangelism is HARD WORK and requires the investment of great time, tears, strategy, thought, preparation, and relationship.

The term "drive-by" has been overused, but much of our Christian culture employs the use of "drive-by evangelism". We "drive-by" and hit them with a bumper sticker about hell, a t-shirt about Jesus, knock on the door and hand them a flyer, or use public displays of "intercession" or preaching. It's much easier to organize a "crusade", bring in a hot Christian pop group, dress in cool jeans, and get people to come up and sign a card, than it is to honestly invest in the roller coaster ride of building an authentic relationship with an unchurched person. The crusade, bumper sticker, or t-shirt takes little time or longstanding effort. The relationship, that thing that puts you in the life of a person who struggles with faith, can be brutal and exhausting.

Barna tells us that somewhere close to 80% of people who are active Christians, came to faith as the result of a personal relationship they had with another Christian!! That's huge!!

If we really want to reach the world, we'll pay attention to the strategies of Paul who frequently referenced how we live in front of those who are outside the faith.

Evangelism is not an event, it's a lifestyle.