The Stoning of Human Beings

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

It's a question that everyone asks at some point or another: "How can a loving God do something that seems so cruel?"

I'm curious though...If you doubt that God condoned stoning people in the OT, do you also doubt that God will condemn souls to Hell for eternity?

Yes. I believe Eternal Hell is a fictitious idea, brought about by ancient folklore and Religion gone mad. People on this Forum and in the Christian world can tell you Hell is real, but no one has been there to prove it is. Look into the history of past civilizations and you will find the Hell found in the New Testament long before we ever heard of it.

Hell is not found in the Old Testament, and the Jews never believed in such a place. Hell is only a recent idea, and the majority of mankind has never heard of Hell.

Eternal Damnation makes absolutely no sense, and discredits Calvary's true power to redeem lost mankind.

Here is an interesting link regarding Hell, and how Eternal Punishment is leaving current Translations.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/He...e_Forever.html

I don't want to sidetrack this Thread, but feel free to message me regarding this subject. I have a host of other facts that show how Hell ended up in Religion.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

This movie is NOT Gods word nor does it portay anything that happened in it. I have no interest in the movie. I will continue to read and believe the scriptures. You are obviously using the movie to further your agenda of destroying faith that they are given by God.

Your post is proof that people want to hide from the facts.

Stoning is stoning, no matter who does it. The Scriptures show the brutality of stoning, period. Read the account of Stephen. What happened to this man was barbaric.

You hide your eyes from the truth and continue to hold onto your myths.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Your post is proof that people want to hide from the facts.

Stoning is stoning, no matter who does it. The Scriptures show the brutality of stoning, period. Read the account of Stephen. What happened to this man was barbaric.

You hide your eyes from the truth and continue to hold onto your myths.

And you are supposed to be a Christian? And A Pastor?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

And you are supposed to be a Christian? And A Pastor?

Yeah, most Christians and Pastors all cheered when Stephen was stoned in Acts 7. It's still the high point in most Christian celebrations. Sunday School kids all over the world have always sought to play the role of those who cast the stones at Stephen in the frequent re-enactments of this happy event.

Way to put Not4 in his place!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mfblume

When it comes to questions about what God does or God does not do, and whether that means the Word of God is truly His Word or not, the issue that must always be kept in mind is that God's mind is so vastly larger than our own. Who is to say our minute minds can comprehend things that only God can comprehend? And since God is real, and He is God, it stands to reason that the true God is just and that means we must trust Him even if we cannot figure Him out. Anything else is close to or actually is blasphemous, in my mind.

The problem arises when people take a ridiculously literal approach to the Scriptures and end up painting a ridiculous portrait of the God of the Bible. Excusing and even promoting barbarity as some here frequently do is just one example of the pit falls of an overly literal interpretation.

God's mind is vastly greater than our own, but that doesn't mean He's a jerk. I have been embarrassed by my associations in the past with Oneness ministers who insisted that OT Law be the norm for today. I worked with one guy who actually went out and bought newspaper ads calling for the arrest and imprisonment of homosexuals. He then quoted Scripture for their condemnation and death sentences.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The problem arises when people take a ridiculously literal approach to the Scriptures and end up painting a ridiculous portrait of the God of the Bible. Excusing and even promoting barbarity as some here frequently do is just one example of the pit falls of an overly literal interpretation.

God's mind is vastly greater than our own, but that doesn't mean He's a jerk. I have been embarrassed by my associations in the past with Oneness ministers who insisted that OT Law be the norm for today. I worked with one guy who actually went out and bought newspaper ads calling for the arrest and imprisonment of homosexuals. He then quoted Scripture for their condemnation and death sentences.

What's a non-ridiculous approach to Numbers 31?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Timmy

What's a non-ridiculous approach to Numbers 31?

Well, the "fact" that 16,000 virgins were even found in the nation of the Midianites seems to be remarkable.

However, seeing this as a story about tribal warfare, it's perhaps best to start with the opening statement: God is portrayed as telling Moses, "Moses you are going to die, but before you do, the nation of the Midianites will perish as well."

It doesn't really appear to have been intended as a "happy narrative." Also, given the fact that this was written seven or eight hundred years after the event we must see the writers and the later redactors as having cast many of the historical events (like warfare) in a rather fatalistic fashion as being the will of God."

Since an event had already happened, and since the writers believed that God controlled these events, their existential fatalism attributed whatever came to pass as being by the "word of God" or in line with "the will of God."

Notice also the parallels to other similar events like Saul's taking the booty from the raids against the Amalekites (1 Samuel 15). One important point here is that Israel had a way in which they were commanded to go about their warfare. They were never to engage in war for the simple pleasure of gathering plunder or "captives." The rather angry disposition of the plunder and captives (i.e" "slaves") by both prophets (Moses and Samuel) is the key highlight here. Israel is intended to learn a lesson from this about the why's and wherefore's for declaring war.

Even if they do capture a "spoil" or plunder, God Himself will take the plunder away from them. Compare this to the conquests of modern Israel in 1967 and 1973. Many Jews feel that the lessons from passages like Numbers 31, are still to be learned today.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Well, the "fact" that 16,000 virgins were even found in the nation of the Midianites seems to be remarkable.

However, seeing this as a story about tribal warfare, it's perhaps best to start with the opening statement: God is portrayed as telling Moses, "Moses you are going to die, but before you do, the nation of the Midianites will perish as well."

It doesn't really appear to have been intended as a "happy narrative." Also, given the fact that this was written seven or eight hundred years after the event we must see the writers and the later redactors as having cast many of the historical events (like warfare) in a rather fatalistic fashion as being the will of God."

Since an event had already happened, and since the writers believed that God controlled these events, their existential fatalism attributed whatever came to pass as being by the "word of God" or in line with "the will of God."

I agree. That's non-ridiculous, and pretty much my take on it. I would only explicitly add that God (IMO) had absolutely nothing to do with the slaughter or the taking of the virgin girls (if it really happened).

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Timmy

I agree. That's non-ridiculous, and pretty much my take on it. I would only explicitly add that God (IMO) had absolutely nothing to do with the slaughter or the taking of the virgin girls (if it really happened).

If it didn't "really" happen here, it certainly really happened enough times to make it a reality for the people of later generations. The key to the story isn't to find "cool" things that happened that would make a great movie experience for 21st Century Americans.

The point of the story is what lessons can we learn from the experiences of these people? And remember, people who are considered "ancient" by us today were the the intended audience for these stories and lessons. The how's and wherefore's concerning gathering a harem were actual and real considerations.

The disposition of plunder and booty needed some sort of moral guidance. Many of the lessons don't even apply to us today, but that doesn't take away from the fact that they were useful and inspired instructions for generations of souls that have preceded us on this planet.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Jesus wanted to show the woman mercy. God said he will have mercy on whom he will have mercy. Notice tho he did not forbid the stoning just demanded it be done by those without sin.

So those without sin can carry out a stoning.