Also, we have to observe that planting two kinds of seeds, different fabrics woven together. Any resident Hebrew historians know what the significance of that is?
The other questions are excellent, but this question is actually the best one of all.
They point out the every issue that I have shared on several threads lately, the difference between the Western and Hebraic worldviews, and why it is so difficult for us to actually understand and apply the old covenant writings. Be at peace with yourself, because, Hellenistic Jews don't understand the old scriptures much better than we do - if at all!
First, the Hebrew sages recognize that we are to know God and His ways, while at the same time they also confess that such a goal is impossible to reach. A paradox that drives most westerners crazy. The thrust of Judaism is not to understand God so much as to discern what it takes to please Him. They seek the face of God as a concept: A single deity and as the only creator. God has historically been viewed by the Hebrew sages as an absolute unity of complex elements, natures, attributes, and modes of existence, which is different and more comprehensive than either the Trinitarian or Oneness doctrines will allow for.
While the Hebrew mindset wants to know the what is required (action, verb, performance based religion) Western thinking, however, desires to know the why and the how (knowledge and information, got it figured out).
The Jewish answer to the posed questions is simple, "Because God said so." end of discussion. No, there is no recorded Hebrew solution to the kinds of issues posed in the original questions. The other most common Jewish answer is, "I don't know why." However, not many western-thinking Christians can live with these kinds of responses. It leaves too many other questions dangling in the air.
The modern-day legalistic approach to the old covenant is with, "This is the law, obey it." I like that approach. It's simple and to the point. The grace based believers come from the position of, "The Law has been done away with, we are now living under grace, so forget the law or you will fall from grace and lose your salvation."
The truth? It is as I posted earlier, life with God is a balance of love and obedience. It is a personal, intimate relationship where how one performs in the relationship determines the quality of that relationship. A pure performance based relationship (rules and regulations) will always be cold and for the most part, barren. A love only (emotional, no boundaries) based relationship will soon become boring and lacking in substance. God has indicated that He is looking for adult (mature) companionship, not walking among mindless slaves or giddy, carefree kids.
The Jews need to get rid of some of the Jewish belief system and discover grace, and the Christians need to get rid of the Roman paganism belief system and discover obedience to God, rather than men. Both need to discard all of that which is not based on scripture and embrace the life of spiritual freedom - with its intended responsibilities.
Comment: Our God is a covenant God.
Question: Can anyone list the New Covenant requirements that humans are to meet, as their obligation under the covenant agreement? If anyone cannot list those requirements, then they are not living up to the agreement, and cannot expect God to honor His side of the bargain. It will be just as it was in the days of old:
Answer: Some old branches were cut off the olive tree to make room for the grafting in of the unruly branches of the wild tree. It is also written that if we (grafted in branches) fail to measure up to the requirements of the New Covenant, He will cut us off too And, that it will be real easy to graft back in (again) the original branches that were cutoff for our benefit.
Conclusion: Let us start seeking the kingdom of God first - seeking His face. Let us follow after the leadership of those who consistently point the way to Jesus Christ, using the scriptures as the road map. Then, placing your trust only in the Christ and taking personal responsibly of working out our own salvation. Yes, even with fear and trembling. Not because we desire to avoid going to hell, but because we might fail to give our God the love and honer He rightly deserves.
A much wiser man that I was recorded as saying something like this: "I will love, honor and worship Jesus whether I make it to heaven or not. Saved or lost, live or die, it is not for what's in it for me, I do it because He is alone worthy."
Projection: While on this earth, my relational attitude with God should be, not what's in for me, but how can God receive glory through (in) me? God does not exist for my pleasure or even my well being. I exist for His pleasure and for His glory. May I learn to keep these priorities straight.
__________________
It makes no difference whether you study in the holy language, or in Arabic, or Aramaic [or in Greek or even in English]; it matters only whether it is done with understanding. - Moshe Maimonides.
Last edited by A.W. Bowman; 07-05-2010 at 04:15 PM.
The first time I heard about "Cutting" I seriously thought I was being joked with. The inner self-loathing and self-esteem issues that go with that problem are heart-breaking.
I too found it hard to believe. I read about it in EMT classes, but really could not see it being for real until I saw it in person a few times. Serious mental disorder.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Ok, why would you not get a devil tatoo? What if someone DID want a devil tatoo. I know a guy who says he's a Christian (would fit in with alot of folks here) who said he was going to shave his head and have devil horns tatooed on his head. He could grow hair to cover it up, or shave his head when he wanted them to show.
As for "old school" mindsets, that is simply an unfounded opinion. Because I'm not going to say "anything goes" if you want to tatoo a leaf on your arm, or a teardrop under your eye, or devils horn on your head, or tatoo your face like mike tyson, or tatoo your whole body (like the pic of the guy in this thread) well thats all right, God doesn't care. Whatever. Not everything that has ever been taught is 100% completely wrong.
The problem is, so many have come up under legalistic rules and never learned to live by Biblical principles, and now that many have shed that legalism they can't even comprehend principles.
NOW, this is the third time I've asked you this, will you answer it already?
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
The other questions are excellent, but this question is actually the best one of all.
They point out the every issue that I have shared on several threads lately, the difference between the Western and Hebraic worldviews, and why it is so difficult for us to actually understand and apply the old covenant writings. Be at peace with yourself, because, Hellenistic Jews don't understand the old scriptures much better than we do - if at all!
First, the Hebrew sages recognize that we are to know God and His ways, while at the same time they also confess that such a goal is impossible to reach. A paradox that drives most westerners crazy. The thrust of Judaism is not to understand God so much as to discern what it takes to please Him. They seek the face of God as a concept: A single deity and as the only creator. God has historically been viewed by the Hebrew sages as an absolute unity of complex elements, natures, attributes, and modes of existence, which is different and more comprehensive than either the Trinitarian or Oneness doctrines will allow for.
While the Hebrew mindset wants to know the what is required (action, verb, performance based religion) Western thinking, however, desires to know the why and the how (knowledge and information, got it figured out).
The Jewish answer to the posed questions is simple, "Because God said so." end of discussion. No, there is no recorded Hebrew solution to the kinds of issues posed in the original questions. The other most common Jewish answer is, "I don't know why." However, not many western-thinking Christians can live with these kinds of responses. It leaves too many other questions dangling in the air.
The modern-day legalistic approach to the old covenant is with, "This is the law, obey it." I like that approach. It's simple and to the point. The grace based believers come from the position of, "The Law has been done away with, we are now living under grace, so forget the law or you will fall from grace and lose your salvation."
The truth? It is as I posted earlier, life with God is a balance of love and obedience. It is a personal, intimate relationship where how one performs in the relationship determines the quality of that relationship. A pure performance based relationship (rules and regulations) will always be cold and for the most part, barren. A love only (emotional, no boundaries) based relationship will soon become boring and lacking in substance. God has indicated that He is looking for adult (mature) companionship, not walking among mindless slaves or giddy, carefree kids.
The Jews need to get rid of some of the Jewish belief system and discover grace, and the Christians need to get rid of the Roman paganism belief system and discover obedience to God, rather than men. Both need to discard all of that which is not based on scripture and embrace the life of spiritual freedom - with its intended responsibilities.
Comment: Our God is a covenant God.
Question: Can anyone list the New Covenant requirements that humans are to meet, as their obligation under the covenant agreement? If anyone cannot list those requirements, then they are not living up to the agreement, and cannot expect God to honor His side of the bargain. It will be just as it was in the days of old:
Answer: Some old branches were cut off the olive tree to make room for the grafting in of the unruly branches of the wild tree. It is also written that if we (grafted in branches) fail to measure up to the requirements of the New Covenant, He will cut us off too And, that it will be real easy to graft back in (again) the original branches that were cutoff for our benefit.
Conclusion: Let us start seeking the kingdom of God first - seeking His face. Let us follow after the leadership of those who consistently point the way to Jesus Christ, using the scriptures as the road map. Then, placing your trust only in the Christ and taking personal responsibly of working out our own salvation. Yes, even with fear and trembling. Not because we desire to avoid going to hell, but because we might fail to give our God the love and honer He rightly deserves.
A much wiser man that I was recorded as saying something like this: "I will love, honor and worship Jesus whether I make it to heaven or not. Saved or lost, live or die, it is not for what's in it for me, I do it because He is alone worthy."
Projection: While on this earth, my relational attitude with God should be, not what's in for me, but how can God receive glory through (in) me? God does not exist for my pleasure or even my well being. I exist for His pleasure and for His glory. May I learn to keep these priorities straight.
But you didn't comment at all on the mixed fabrics, planting of seeds?
So, in your view, Westernism is more absolute and Easternism is more non-absolute?
Ok, why would you not get a devil tatoo? What if someone DID want a devil tatoo. I know a guy who says he's a Christian (would fit in with alot of folks here) who said he was going to shave his head and have devil horns tatooed on his head. He could grow hair to cover it up, or shave his head when he wanted them to show.
As for "old school" mindsets, that is simply an unfounded opinion. Because I'm not going to say "anything goes" if you want to tatoo a leaf on your arm, or a teardrop under your eye, or devils horn on your head, or tatoo your face like mike tyson, or tatoo your whole body (like the pic of the guy in this thread) well thats all right, God doesn't care. Whatever. Not everything that has ever been taught is 100% completely wrong.
The problem is, so many have come up under legalistic rules and never learned to live by Biblical principles, and now that many have shed that legalism they can't even comprehend principles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Badejo
NOW, this is the third time I've asked you this, will you answer it already?
I'm not answering because I realize that you've beaten me in the debate and I just don't wanna face the facts!
Seriously Jason, I don't see what this has to do with the price of charcoal at Wal-mart. So...a guy gets a tattoo with devil horns, or whatever, and what.....that's supposed to make tattoos bad? With that logic, one could condemn haircuts (hey, not a bad idea), toothpaste, shaving, and mowing the yard. "Hey, did you see that guy? He shaved a form of a devil out of his whiskers. I think we should condemn shaving." "Hey, my neighbor mowed his yard and did devil horns with his mower. Hey Church, no one can mow anymore."
There's no connection, Jason.
Any time you wanna say the wise thing, which would be, "I've been whupped", you may do so!
But you didn't comment at all on the mixed fabrics, planting of seeds?
So, in your view, Westernism is more absolute and Easternism is more non-absolute?
Sorry -
Quote:
The Jewish answer to the posed questions is simple, "Because God said so." end of discussion. No, there is no recorded Hebrew solution to the kinds of issues posed in the original questions. The other most common Jewish answer is, "I don't know why." However, not many western-thinking Christians can live with these kinds of responses. It leaves too many other questions dangling in the air.
It is not a question of being more or less 'absolute' but in one's worldview, i.e. the biblical Hebraic language (mode of thinking) is a conceptual (verb based), concrete (sometimes stark graphics), time revolving language. While the Western language is an abstract (noun based), linear precept, time constrained language. One language paints a picture (a thousand words) while the other prefers a single word communication form. This why is it almost impossible to translate any Hebrew text into a word for word text in English (or even in Greek, another abstract language),
__________________
It makes no difference whether you study in the holy language, or in Arabic, or Aramaic [or in Greek or even in English]; it matters only whether it is done with understanding. - Moshe Maimonides.
It is not a question of being more or less 'absolute' but in one's worldview, i.e. the biblical Hebraic language (mode of thinking) is a conceptual (verb based), concrete (sometimes stark graphics), time revolving language. While the Western language is an abstract (noun based), linear precept, time constrained language. One language paints a picture (a thousand words) while the other prefers a single word communication form. This why is it almost impossible to translate any Hebrew text into a word for word text in English (or even in Greek, another abstract language),
I get it, but I have told my kids when they were growing up.......Because I said so......usually when they had asked why over and over again.......LOL
And God being the ABSOLUTE authority doesn't have to answer the whys!
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
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