Well, actually Peter didn't deliver a theology of the "dual nature of God." He just said, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God."
I think it's disturbing when we say that others just haven't been privileged enough to have that revelation to understand the godhead the same way we do.
I think the revelation that Peter experienced, was Gospel-centered faith. It's regeneration. I think it's what happens when one believes.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
I've often wondered if he was praying for his sake, or for ours.
Your last sentence -- wow. Pretty amazing if true. I can hear Timmy right here saying: I Guess it's easy to trust God when you're God though!
Well, maybe both.
Because he was genuinely human he prayed. The Son is not a mere shell as some teach. The Son is a Person (God) with a Human nature. To help that make sense we too are persons with a human nature, but we are not Divine persons that started out as Transcendent beings.
BTW when wrestling with these things...yeah Timmy might say that but let's be real here...I don't know a lot of things, but I believe they are true. I don't know how Jesus walked on water. I don't know the mechanics involved. God does. We can't do that ourselves without the unlimited ability of the Spirit of God, but Peter did not know how he was able to do that,I mean as far as the mechanics involved. He might know who made it so he could walk on water.
I don't know how God could speak things into existence...I don't know the supernatural mechanics involved, but I believe he did
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
That sounds as if the Son, while on Earth, was not Divine though. Because the Divinity was self-limited, restrained. To restrain to the level of being called "fully human" would require to be fully removed from Divinity. That doesn't make the Son a shell at all, but rather the opposite - human to the absence of Divinity, a fact that makes Trinny heads turn red in anger.
Anyhow.. it's fun to talk about. Have a good evening everyone.
Well, what can I say? I didn't mean to start a FIGHT!! Anyway, thanks for all the input. Some of it made a lot of sense; some of it confused me even more.
Here's where I draw a line:
I differ with alot of Oneness people in that I believe that Jesus was fully God, but I do not believe that He was the Father. I know that there are some sort of Biblical distinctions between the Father, Son & Holy Spirit, but I have NOT figured it out.
I differ with Trinitarians in that I do not believe the Jesus, the Father, and the Spirit all have differing mindsets and thought patterns. I don't believe they confer and make decisions together. That's why the scripture that I mentioned originally really messes with me - because it sounds like Jesus (mediator) is trying to talk God into something - to change His mind about our sins. Why would we need a mediator if we can just come before the throne boldly?
That sounds as if the Son, while on Earth, was not Divine though. Because the Divinity was self-limited, restrained. To restrain to the level of being called "fully human" would require to be fully removed from Divinity. That doesn't make the Son a shell at all, but rather the opposite - human to the absence of Divinity, a fact that makes Trinny heads turn red in anger.
Anyhow.. it's fun to talk about. Have a good evening everyone.
Right. In person, the Son is in personal identity that same person that created all things. In Divine essence, the Divine Spirit/nature was in the human body and still something God possessed as His own but He willingly "put it aside". He was not "Divine" in the sense that when He came on the scene he did everything through His human nature, even walking on water was done as a man trusting in God. But that was a willing thing. He was still God in the sense that personally He is the same "I AM" and ontologically He never really is separated from the Divine Spirit or the essence that makes the I AM "Almighty God"
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Well, what can I say? I didn't mean to start a FIGHT!! Anyway, thanks for all the input. Some of it made a lot of sense; some of it confused me even more.
Here's where I draw a line:
I differ with alot of Oneness people in that I believe that Jesus was fully God, but I do not believe that He was the Father. I know that there are some sort of Biblical distinctions between the Father, Son & Holy Spirit, but I have NOT figured it out.
I differ with Trinitarians in that I do not believe the Jesus, the Father, and the Spirit all have differing mindsets and thought patterns. I don't believe they confer and make decisions together. That's why the scripture that I mentioned originally really messes with me - because it sounds like Jesus (mediator) is trying to talk God into something - to change His mind about our sins. Why would we need a mediator if we can just come before the throne boldly?
Well, what can I say? I didn't mean to start a FIGHT!! Anyway, thanks for all the input. Some of it made a lot of sense; some of it confused me even more.
Here's where I draw a line:
I differ with alot of Oneness people in that I believe that Jesus was fully God, but I do not believe that He was the Father. I know that there are some sort of Biblical distinctions between the Father, Son & Holy Spirit, but I have NOT figured it out.
I differ with Trinitarians in that I do not believe the Jesus, the Father, and the Spirit all have differing mindsets and thought patterns. I don't believe they confer and make decisions together. That's why the scripture that I mentioned originally really messes with me - because it sounds like Jesus (mediator) is trying to talk God into something - to change His mind about our sins. Why would we need a mediator if we can just come before the throne boldly?
Just my ramblings.......
His sacrifice took care of it once and for all on Calvary. That is what makes him or his work the continual mediation for our sins.
Who condemns us? Not God... so the sacrifice was made in our defense and continues to mediate so that we boldy go before the throne.
Calvary took care of sin from past at conversion, but also present and in the future as our mediator. Does that make better sense for the word?
Jesus Christ mediated between God and men on the cross. Verse 6 even explicitly explains how he mediated between God and men: he gave himself a ransom for all. In fact, one might could think of the cross as all the mediation mankind will ever need
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1 Timothy 2:6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
I hope that helps.
good post.
We were reconciled back to the Father through Calvary...once and for all, and all we need. Mediation...bringing about a reconcilation.
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
[QUOTE=Hoovie;940732]It is disturbing and condescending...
Sherri,
I did not mean to be disturbing or condescending, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I am not more spiritual, more enlightened, or closer to God than you, it's just that sometimes God has to show us stuff, and a lot of times in His providence. It's about relationship and if we just keep seeking to be with and know Him, the stuff we don't understand will fall into place.
Disturbing and condescending is for someone to post a question and 10 of the 15 pages of dialog are for the enlightened ones to talk about each other instead of dealing with the subject at hand.
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