UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by OilCityCajun

Show me one that says the ministry doesnt have authority to lead the flock

If someone denied "the ministry" had authority to lead the flock, the question would be relevant

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by OilCityCajun

Perhaps you can explain to me what, exactly, Christ meant in Matthew 16:19 and 18:18.

A better question would be for you to explain HOW they mean we can make up doctrines

[OilCityCajun]

Perhaps the lateness of the hour is fuzzing both our brains. Perhaps you would notice I put doctrines in quotes, in response to someone else using that terminology. I do not believe standards are doctrines, but guidelines which the ministry does, indeed, have the authority to set. When Christ upbraided the pharisees for their teachings, he was very specific about what his problem with them was. It wasnt that they made rules, but that they presented those rules as doctrines, and then that they themselves refused to come close to following those same rules. I think the authority to bind and loose is clearly the authority to set guidelines and set limitations.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by OilCityCajun

and there was no fermentation (gall) found in the mouth of our perfect example, Christ.

Do you mean 'guile'?

I Pet. 2:22

[OilCityCajun]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Do you mean 'guile'?

I Pet. 2:22

I'm not sure. I may be confusing that scripture with 1 or 2 others. It's way past my bedtime. and as my eyes grow heavier, my attitude grows worse, so I will apologize for said attitude and call it a night.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by OilCityCajun

"Obey them that have rule over you, for they watch for your soul"
"He that receives me, receives he that sent me"
"And such like"
"Feed my sheep"
"Whatsoever you bind on Earth..."

This needs to be revisited.

The first I can accept as true to a degree. Some people only have rule over us because we allow them, though, and do NOT watch for our souls, but only for their own stomachs. This verse doesn't hold true as a pat answer for why we should obey anyone who says they are a pastor.

The second was said by Jesus, not a pastor. (and is the reason for this small commentary-that kind of proof texting is very dangerous-anyone that doesn't look it up could misunderstand the intent.)

I can only assume that the third is in reference to Gal 5:19-23 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Beards, wedding bands "and such like" hardly fit with the rest of the context that "such like" refers to here.

The fourth says "feed", not "set additional rules for."

The fifth was Jesus talking to Peter. Do we all have the keys to the kingdom now? Do all who call themselves pastors?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Do you mean 'guile'?

I Pet. 2:22

I took it as being a reference to Matthew 27:34. The ISBE states that Romans mixed frankincense (a bitter tasting spice) with wine to numb those facing execution.

The "gall" was only found in our Lord's mouth for a moment because he tasted it and refused the concoction. This seems to relate to the idea of alcohol use being prohibited.

Not having "guile" mean to be without "tricks" or deceit. Though an admirable quality, I don't see how it would help us to "create a doctrine" on the use or abstention of alcohol.

Oil's tuckered. Sleep well, Bro.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by missourimary

This needs to be revisited.

The first I can accept as true to a degree. Some people only have rule over us because we allow them, though, and do NOT watch for our souls, but only for their own stomachs. This verse doesn't hold true as a pat answer for why we should obey anyone who says they are a pastor.

The second was said by Jesus, not a pastor. (and is the reason for this small commentary-that kind of proof texting is very dangerous-anyone that doesn't look it up could misunderstand the intent.)

I can only assume that the third is in reference to Gal 5:19-23 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Beards, wedding bands "and such like" hardly fit with the rest of the context that "such like" refers to here.

The fourth says "feed", not "set additional rules for."

The fifth was Jesus talking to Peter. Do we all have the keys to the kingdom now? Do all who call themselves pastors?

An excellent point on the "second thing," however Matthew 10:40, does include "receiving a preacher" - in this case, the apostles. By extrapolation we can apply this to those who share the Gospel - and not just "preachers" too!

The problem with using both the "first" and the "second" points as a means to uphold the present culture within the OP movement is that by seeking to enforce the extra-Biblical standards as doctrine and as being salvational, these guys remove themselves from the category of "apostles" (or Apostolic) and demonstrate that God hasn't really "sent" them.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15; 1 John 2:21, 1 John 4:1; Revelation 2:2.

There is no lie in the the truth. That helps us to evaluate just what is truth and to whom we deservedly owe our obedience.

[corvet786c]

I thought we are not suppose to take our brothers and sisters to court?

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by corvet786c

I thought we are not suppose to take our brothers and sisters to court?

I thought we weren't suppose to slander...