convince me you understood what I said first, offer your agreement or your disagreement
Well, I'll try. Let's see now. Here's what you said:
First of all, someone that is "hearing voices" due to a mental illness, is not just hearing a voice once in a great while, but often.
Not sure if this is true or not, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt. So, OK, let's say it is true. Are you also implying that when there are other reasons for hearing voices, or at least when it is God talking, it is infrequent? And can we therefore conclude that if one is hearing voices often, then it is not God speaking? With that, I do not agree. That is to say, if I believed God speaks to people, I would not agree. God would talk whenever He wanted to talk, and as often as He wanted to.
And they probably exhibit other symptoms like paranoia and other delusions.
That seems likely, so sure, I can agree with that one. And again, are you implying that if one exhibits other symptoms, then the voices are not God's voice? You don't believe that God will speak to someone with symptoms of mental illness? Again, I would think that God would speak to whomever He wanted to, regardless of their state of health.
If God spoke to someone in an audible voice, or an angel, it would not contradict the word of God.
This, too, seems likely. I can agree that God would not contradict Himself, and angels (the ones on God's side, at least) would not contradict God, either. But what if a message doesn't contradict the Bible? We could then not rule out the message being genuine, but we cannot conclude for sure that it is genuine.
It would probably also confirm some other "sign" that person had already had like another person telling them the same thing etc
I have no idea if this one is true or not. But I'm not sure it matters, since you said "probably", implying that there may be exceptions. That being the case, it would not be relevant to the question of whether the audible message is really from God or not. Well, except that maybe it would tip the scale in one direction of the other, but it would not be conclusive.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Time for my follow-up question. Discussion only, not a poll.
So, if Spirit-filled believers (according to some voters, at least) may hear audible voices from God Himself or from other sources (mental illness, e.g., was one popular response), can the hearer of an audible voice tell whether it came from God or not?
Here's another follow-up:
Does it matter?
Is it important for an individual to know, for sure, if a voice he or she hears is coming from God or not?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
A lot of them did. In other words you can't really say "well option X has the most so...." when at least 2 persons that voted for option X voted for ever other option too. Those 2 persons thing the other options are just as valid
Ah. I think I see what you mean. But it was not my intention to declare a winner, as if to say that one of the options was the most likely cause for hearing voices in any particular case. Rather, it was to invite people to think of what possible causes there could be, in the various occurrences that there are. And to, if they like, to rule out some of the offered choices, if, e.g., they don't think demons can use audible voices.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Well, I'll try. Let's see now. Here's what you said:
First of all, someone that is "hearing voices" due to a mental illness, is not just hearing a voice once in a great while, but often.
Not sure if this is true or not, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt. So, OK, let's say it is true. Are you also implying that when there are other reasons for hearing voices, or at least when it is God talking, it is infrequent? And can we therefore conclude that if one is hearing voices often, then it is not God speaking? With that, I do not agree. That is to say, if I believed God speaks to people, I would not agree. God would talk whenever He wanted to talk, and as often as He wanted to.
Given the biblical data, God does not frequently speak to persons in an audible voice, so if someone is hearing voices often I would doubt that is God
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And they probably exhibit other symptoms like paranoia and other delusions.
That seems likely, so sure, I can agree with that one. And again, are you implying that if one exhibits other symptoms, then the voices are not God's voice? You don't believe that God will speak to someone with symptoms of mental illness? Again, I would think that God would speak to whomever He wanted to, regardless of their state of health.
If someone is exhibiting other signs of schizophrenia I would doubt they are hearing from God
Quote:
If God spoke to someone in an audible voice, or an angel, it would not contradict the word of God.
This, too, seems likely. I can agree that God would not contradict Himself, and angels (the ones on God's side, at least) would not contradict God, either. But what if a message doesn't contradict the Bible? We could then not rule out the message being genuine, but we cannot conclude for sure that it is genuine.
Again you can't just take this part of what I said and isolate it from the rest of the points.
Quote:
It would probably also confirm some other "sign" that person had already had like another person telling them the same thing etc
I have no idea if this one is true or not. But I'm not sure it matters, since you said "probably", implying that there may be exceptions. That being the case, it would not be relevant to the question of whether the audible message is really from God or not. Well, except that maybe it would tip the scale in one direction of the other, but it would not be conclusive.
Again there is another biblical principle of 2 or 3 witnesses.If God spoke to someone else to speak to you, there should be some sort of sign...for example the person knows nothing about a situation you are dealing with and gives you details.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Given the biblical data, God does not frequently speak to persons in an audible voice, so if someone is hearing voices often I would doubt that is GodIf someone is exhibiting other signs of schizophrenia I would doubt they are hearing from God
He seemed to speak to Moses quite often. Do you somehow know that God will never do that again with anyone in modern times?
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Again you can't just take this part of what I said and isolate it from the rest of the points.
Was there something wrong in what I said?
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Again there is another biblical principle of 2 or 3 witnesses.If God spoke to someone else to speak to you, there should be some sort of sign...for example the person knows nothing about a situation you are dealing with and gives you details.
Were there verifying witnesses for what God told Abraham, Moses, Samuel, Paul, etc.?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
He seemed to speak to Moses quite often. Do you somehow know that God will never do that again with anyone in modern times?
Was there something wrong in what I said?
Were there verifying witnesses for what God told Abraham, Moses, Samuel, Paul, etc.?
OK, that part about isolating one thing you said. That's not what I meant to do. I thought it went without saying (my mistake! lol) that this was one of the several conditions you have named, and that if this one is met along with all the others, it still would not prove that a voice came from God. And I agreed that this condition (God would not contradict Himself) is reasonable.
Have I demonstrated that I understood your post? I have indicated agreements and disagreements with it. Now can you answer that question with a Yes or No? Or perhaps with a Sometimes?
Can the hearer of an audible voice tell whether it came from God or not?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
He seemed to speak to Moses quite often. Do you somehow know that God will never do that again with anyone in modern times?
Define quite often. He did it in frequently but for long periods of time. He also had a witness, Aaron and others that saw the glory of God and the miracles
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Was there something wrong in what I said?
Huh?
Quote:
Were there verifying witnesses for what God told Abraham, Moses, Samuel, Paul, etc.?
Let's take Paul for an example. Yes there were witnesses to the event. Further God spoke to another man to go visit Paul, confirming this witness
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Was there something wrong in what I said?
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