Tithe-vs-Paying Your Bills

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

What tradition then are we following? Do you think following the example of Abraham is tradition?

No. Abraham only tithed once. The tithe that Abraham did perform wasn't of his own goods, but of the spoils from Sodom. Also Abraham tithed to the local king, the King of Salem, after going to war with an adjacent city. It was a "peace offering", not a repeated example or tradition. In addition, when Abraham was told to keep the 90% he refused. Abraham chose to give the remaining spoils back to the exiled King of Sodom. If Abraham's tithe is our exampel for everday life, we're only bound to tithe once, we're to only tithe to a government official, and we're not to even keep the remaining 90%.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'm guessing, but I'd say that tithing is a significant sacrifice for you and your family. I'm convinced that the law of sowing and reaping applies. You're blessed because you're sacrificing. AND THAT'S A GOOD THING. However, you're not blessed simply because you give 10% of your income.



This is another teaching that deserves it's own address. Spiritual authority is abused in most traditional churches in America. Pastors are to be servants... not lords or authoritarian figures that the flock feels bound to serve. We're all kings and priests in this kingdom. Pentecost seems to have done away with the concept of the "priesthood of all believers" when it embraced the principles of the Shepherding Movement that the Charismatics introduced. The end result has created a generation of passive Pentecostals who are entertainment driven and are largely only spectators in the Kingdom getting their "Sunday fix" from their church service.

If they'd release the body... we'd turn the world upside down in our generation.

We're slowly becoming Catholic.

And we would slowly fall to ruin

Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

I realize pastors have abused authority but that does not replace the true nature of their calling.. to watch for our souls. If God moves on them to direct us to tithe, if we are under that leadership, we had better tithe.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Aquila

No. Abraham only tithed once. The tithe that Abraham did perform wasn't of his own goods, but of the spoils from Sodom. Also Abraham tithed to the local king, the King of Salem, after going to war with an adjacent city. It was a "peace offering", not a repeated example or tradition. In addition, when Abraham was told to keep the 90% he refused. Abraham chose to give the remaining spoils back to the exiled King of Sodom. If Abraham's tithe is our exampel for everday life, we're only bound to tithe once, we're to only tithe to a government official, and we're not to even keep the remaining 90%.

They were not the spoils of Sodom. it was Sodom's goods and Lot's as well..

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Agreed, which is why the OT blessing of tithes in Malachi actually applied also to the church today. It is a blessing to give tithes, not a curse.

Most people don't realize that Malachi was addressing the priests in the passage discussing tithing. The priests robbed God, even the whole nation, because they were consuming the tithes for themselves instead of stocking the store house for the poor, widow, orphan, and stranger.

Whatsoever you've done to the least of these, you've done unto him. They robbed the poor and the widows... they robbed God.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I totally understand we cannot live by the old law, but I'm telling you the promise of opening up the windows of heaven is attached to tithing today!. I've seen it.

Many claim to have seen the power of "magic hair" and crystal healing too. lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Since tithing was a agricultural venture is was in perfect keeping with that understanding for God to use a phrase (open up the windows of heaven) that was used exclusively to refer to rain in the OT.

It is twisting the word of God to attempt to make this mean that God is saying that he will bless someone financially.

Also... if that were true that opening up the windows of heaven referred to financial blessings... and one were to understand the true intent of the writing... then the message of Malachi 3 would be this.

If preachers will take 10% of the tithe and will stop taking it all... which is against God's command of the tithe... then God will blessing everyone financially... or at least the pastor. Because God was talking about the priests misusing the tithe and not handling it per his commands. The priests were robbing God... even robbing the entire nation by taking more than 10% of the tithe that came in (among other things) and God was not happy about it.

Blessing comes from giving. We agree there.

Interesting point!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

What is the offering of malachi? Tithes and Offerings was what the people were robbing God over.

Paul advised that the ministry should live of the gospel which churches communicated to his need. At what point would a pastor then not take all the tithe? 50 K a year, 75 K a year, 20 K a year.. where is the line drawn?.


Your saying a blessing that you cannot contain is referring to rain. If the land could not contain it, would that not mean it would be a flood?

LOL Good come back!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I decided I wasn't going to even respond to this but since Truthseeker did and I got to reading it again... I'm going to go ahead... against my better judgment.



1. Tithes & what? Where do you get even get that offerings were involved in that discourse?
2. Where do you get that the people were the ones robbing God? It was the priests. They were robbing God... even robbing the entire nation.



You're the one wanting to follow the example of the tithe. If you're going to follow it... follow it. And by that example the line wouldn't be drawn anywhere. The preacher would get 10% of the tithe. Then another 10% of the tithe would be used to pay the people who clean the toilets, the musicians, the sunday school teachers etc. And the other 80% would be used to minister to the needs of the people and that is the way it would happen if the tithes were $10 or $10,000,000. 10% is 10%.



*sigh* Surely you aren't serious.

Let's take a look...

First... "Windows of heaven" only appears three times in the Bible. And they all refer to rain,.

.

Secondly... on an agricultural basis rain brings harvest. Rain is needed for growth and a bigger rain is needed just before harvest time to bring the crops to fruition.



God is saying... I will make it/let it rain and pour you out a blessing that there won't be room to contain.

Room where?

In the storehouse of course. Because the storehouse is where the tithe (which is agricultural) is kept. what is being said here is this... do what I say and it will rain and you will have crops the tithe of which cannot even be contained in the storehouse.

The priests were not even keeping the tithe in the storehouse. The priests had the Levites out working in the field to bring home food to feed their own families. If they weren't keeping the tithe in the storehouse then it was, apparently, being consumed by the priests or whoever the priests allowed to eat it. So the poor weren't being fed, the Levites were having to work in the fields, there was merchandising going on at the gate on the sabbath day.

The priests had not only stolen from God... they had stolen from the entire nation.

I just don't see where you are getting your thoughts from.

Wonderful explanation. Thanks.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

And we would slowly fall to ruin

Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

I realize pastors have abused authority but that does not replace the true nature of their calling.. to watch for our souls. If God moves on them to direct us to tithe, if we are under that leadership, we had better tithe.

A pastors authority can not be above the authority of God, it's not a blank check authority.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

They were not the spoils of Sodom. it was Sodom's goods and Lot's as well..

Heb 7:4

4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils
KJV