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08-27-2010, 06:58 AM
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Jesus is the only Lord God
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Re: Luke chapter 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Very good point!
It reminds me of this: I noticed that dispensationalists claims literal interpretation of scriptures. Israel means Israel. They cannot see Israel as the church today as a spiritual fulfillment of the Israel God foresaw and planned for since the foundation of the world.
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Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Which Israel is refered to in this scripture? Physical Israel or the church
What is the blindness that has happened to Israel? (again which Israel?)
__________________
...Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ...(Acts 20:21)
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08-27-2010, 07:23 AM
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Jesus is the only Lord God
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Re: Luke chapter 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Here is what I considered. Could it be the period when Jerusalem was trodden down, and no more?
Revelation 11:2 KJV But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. (THE EXACT TIME JERUSALEM WAS BESIEGED IN THE FIRST CENTURY, 40 YEARS AFTER THE CROSS, INCLUDING THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION THAT OCCURRED THE SAME MONTH AND DAY OF THE YEAR AS THE TEMPLE WAS DESTROYED BY BABYLON IN THE OLD TESTAMENT)
Luke 21:24 KJV And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Revelation 11 distinctly is a reference to Christ's words in Luke. What does that say about the issue? Both accounts mention Gentiles treading down Jerusalem. Revelation gives us a time period. We have all sorts of opinions as to what the "times" means, but here we see an actual time period associated with that question. |
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Putting the verses that speak of the situation altogether usually helps us get the full picture.
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One more verse that tell us about the "times" of the gentiles is
Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Lk 21:24 tells us the gentiles tread on Jerusalem until the gentile times is fulfilled
Rev 11:2 gives us a time frame for how long the gentiles tread on Jerusalem.
Rom 11:25 gives us the criterion for the times of the gentiles to be fulfilled.
Isn't Israel as a nation still blind today to the gospel of Jesus Christ? The times of the gentiles continues until Israel is no longer blind to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Lk 21:24 - An event will occur
Rev 11:2 - How long the event will occur
Rom 11:25 - Criterion for the event to occur
If the criterion has not been met, how could the gentile times be over?
__________________
...Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ...(Acts 20:21)
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08-31-2010, 12:48 PM
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Jesus is the only Lord God
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,565
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Re: Luke chapter 21
bump...
__________________
...Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ...(Acts 20:21)
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08-31-2010, 12:59 PM
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Saved & Shaved
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SOUTH ZION
Posts: 10,795
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Re: Luke chapter 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGBTG
bump...
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I got overwhelmed with all the info. 
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08-31-2010, 01:12 PM
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Jesus is the only Lord God
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,565
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Re: Luke chapter 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berkley
I got overwhelmed with all the info. |
I know, right. You start off with something simple and all of a sudden, you have pages of info enough to write a book..lol
Anyway, I really wanted Bro Blume to address a couple of questions I asked him in the thread. That's why I bumped it...
__________________
...Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ...(Acts 20:21)
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08-31-2010, 05:54 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Luke chapter 21
Just saw these posts today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGBTG
Isn't Persia the same as Iran?
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Not technically by name today as they insist Israel is named and is specific.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Last edited by mfblume; 08-31-2010 at 07:19 PM.
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08-31-2010, 05:54 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Luke chapter 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchman
I am no dispensationalist. However God will indeed keep the promises He made to the nation of Israel.
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He already did long ago. 
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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08-31-2010, 06:01 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
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Re: Luke chapter 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGBTG
Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Which Israel is refered to in this scripture? Physical Israel or the church
What is the blindness that has happened to Israel? (again which Israel?)
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Israel in Romans 11 is specified by Paul earlier in the context as the people after the flesh with whom he is related. Such a disclaimer is made when Paul talks of "natural" Israel.
Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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08-31-2010, 06:08 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Luke chapter 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGBTG
One more verse that tell us about the "times" of the gentiles is
Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Lk 21:24 tells us the gentiles tread on Jerusalem until the gentile times is fulfilled
Rev 11:2 gives us a time frame for how long the gentiles tread on Jerusalem.
Rom 11:25 gives us the criterion for the times of the gentiles to be fulfilled.
Isn't Israel as a nation still blind today to the gospel of Jesus Christ? The times of the gentiles continues until Israel is no longer blind to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Lk 21:24 - An event will occur
Rev 11:2 - How long the event will occur
Rom 11:25 - Criterion for the event to occur
If the criterion has not been met, how could the gentile times be over? |
The question is whether or not TIMES of the Gentiles refers to FULNESS of the Gentiles. Jesus spoke of treading down Jerusalem during those TIMES, and Revelation 11 does as well. However, I presently see no connection with Paul's reference to the FULNESS of the Gentiles with these other two references other than the use of the term Gentiles.
In Romans 11, Paul is speaking about Jews in light of the truth of Christ requiring themselves to be grafted back onto the olive tree relationship with God as we were grafted in. I think there has to be something more concrete to relate Romans 11 with Rev 11 and
Luke 21.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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09-04-2010, 03:39 PM
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Registered Member
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Re: Luke chapter 21
Here is some info from Albert Barnes about TIMES OF THE GENTILES in Luke 21:
The meaning of the passage clearly is,
1. That Jerusalem would be completely destroyed.
2. That this would be done by Gentiles - that is, by the Roman armies.
3. That this desolation would continue as long as God should judge it proper in a fit manner to express his abhorrence of the crimes of the nation - that is, until the times allotted to “them” by God for this desolation should be accomplished, without specifying how long that would be, or what would occur to the city after that.
I claim it is 3.5 years as noted in Rev 11.
We are talking in detail about Luke 21 in the HERMENEUTICS thread in the Eschatology section.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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