The Wizard Behind the Curtain

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Berkley

ILG: Thank you for creating this thread.

CC1: Are you referring to the son that attended the Methodist university? I probably got the denomination wrong. My apologies.

You're welcome, Berk.

[Jason B]

ILG, while I understand your frustration, I don't believe that God intended any of us to be christians unto ourselves. I think herein is the problem with organized religion manifest, men attempt to take over the church, instead of sheppherding.

It is very difficult to find a church that truly reaches for the lost, while at the same time not teaching an easy believism, yet not enforcing man made rules or addtional requirements to be saved. I drive an hour one way to church each week, because I can't find a church like that in my area.

Those things said, I completely understand disinfrancshisement with the church over the actions of "christians", especially when they are "leaders" of "the [by implication one and only] church". Personally, the people who have treated me the most hateful, are oneness pentecostal ministers when I suggested that we are justifed by faith, not by works (with the implication that salvation is therefore not limited to those who follow the 3 step doctrine). I still believe in oneness, Jesus name baptism, and in tongues (though not as the only initial evidence), I still have standards, though many would say I have none, because they are bible based, not manual based. However, to most (but not all) of them I am their enemy.

I'm not longer upc, and completely understand why you would leave, however, I would just encourage you not to give up on church. If you believe the Bible, and believe Jesus to be who He said He was, then there are churches somewhere who are doing his work, the sad thing is its hard to find them.

[DaffyDuck]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

ILG, while I understand your frustration, I don't believe that God intended any of us to be christians unto ourselves. I think herein is the problem with organized religion manifest, men attempt to take over the church, instead of sheppherding.

It is very difficult to find a church that truly reaches for the lost, while at the same time not teaching an easy believism, yet not enforcing man made rules or addtional requirements to be saved. I drive an hour one way to church each week, because I can't find a church like that in my area.

Those things said, I completely understand disinfrancshisement with the church over the actions of "christians", especially when they are "leaders" of "the [by implication one and only] church". Personally, the people who have treated me the most hateful, are oneness pentecostal ministers when I suggested that we are justifed by faith, not by works (with the implication that salvation is therefore not limited to those who follow the 3 step doctrine). I still believe in oneness, Jesus name baptism, and in tongues (though not as the only initial evidence), I still have standards, though many would say I have none, because they are bible based, not manual based. However, to most (but not all) of them I am their enemy.

I'm not longer upc, and completely understand why you would leave, however, I would just encourage you not to give up on church. If you believe the Bible, and believe Jesus to be who He said He was, then there are churches somewhere who are doing his work, the sad thing is its hard to find them.

Who said anything about her being a Christian unto herself?

What about people who do not, necessarily, share your theological values?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by DaffyDuck

Who said anything about her being a Christian unto herself?

What about people who do not, necessarily, share your theological values?

To not attend a church is to be a christian essentially unto yourself, unless you get involved in ahouse church/study group, something. I don't think "fellowshipping" on the internet with anonymous yahoos constititues fellowship. to all the yahoos.

As to the second question. I never said it was necessary to share my theological views, if in fact you read my post more carefully you would see that I don't believe its my way or the highway. However the concept that as christians we should belong to a fellowship is bible basics. Whether that fellowship meets in a church building, or in a house is I believe irrelevant. However to not meet for prayer, worship, singing, preaching/teaching is to drift away from God, because we are not following His Word. Im not saying ILG is away from God, but if I'm reading her post correctly and she isn't having any chrisitan fellowship outside of AFF, if that continues for a long period of time, I believe it will be very difficult for her to remain a christian over the long term.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

To not attend a church is to be a christian essentially unto yourself, unless you get involved in ahouse church/study group, something. I don't think "fellowshipping" on the internet with anonymous yahoos constititues fellowship. to all the yahoos.

As to the second question. I never said it was necessary to share my theological views, if in fact you read my post more carefully you would see that I don't believe its my way or the highway. However the concept that as christians we should belong to a fellowship is bible basics. Whether that fellowship meets in a church building, or in a house is I believe irrelevant. However to not meet for prayer, worship, singing, preaching/teaching is to drift away from God, because we are not following His Word. Im not saying ILG is away from God, but if I'm reading her post correctly and she isn't having any chrisitan fellowship outside of AFF, if that continues for a long period of time, I believe it will be very difficult for her to remain a christian over the long term.

I think it depends on circumstances. If one is in prison, a very sick shut in, or in a distant region where there are no Christians the internet is the best option of fellowship. It's like writing letters.

However, I generally agree. Rather it be a traditional church, house church, or Bible study group... a Christian needs fellowship. Even if it's just simply another Christian.

[iceniez]

Originally Posted by missourimary

Jesus didn't fit in either. They called Him a sinner, too. When I read about Bartimaeus being thrown out of the temple for saying he followed Jesus, I realized that Jesus was probably thrown out too, if His followers were. That thought has been a comfort.

You are right.