Quote:
Originally Posted by missourimary
What perspective, onefaith? What do you think I'm believing? That no words should be stated? That is not what I said.
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No I understand what you are saying, that the actions make it more valid necessarily than the words spoken. Good intentions are great but even the converts of John the baptist had to be rebaptized in Jesus name. They hadn't become christians yet but you have to understand that John the baptist was preparing the way for the Lord, they were baptized due to their repentance AWAITING messiah. Those are good intentions, but they still needed to be rebaptized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by missourimary
Again, this verse does not discuss simply going around saying "in Jesus name, in Jesus name," but doing what we do in a way that glorifies Him, as good witnesses. The same is true of the other verses you mention. This lines up with James 4:3Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts-not everything we ask "in Jesus name" verbally is given to us. But if our will lines up with His will, then what we ask is given because He is glorified with both the prayers and the answers. In that way, we are asking "in Jesus name" not only with our mouths, but with our hearts.
Ask anyone who can't speak that question. God knows our hearts, with or without verbalization. (also see explanation above).
history shows many things. People read into history based on their current understanding. How do you know whether historically baptism was done because people believed it was essential to have certain words uttered over the convert, or whether the words were for the benefit of the hearers and not the convert at all? That answer isn't in Britannica. |
You used the analogy of pouring coffee. This verse is not talking about everything we do, we don't go to the bathroom to glorify God do we? This verse is talking about things that we would do to glorify God, those things need to be done in Jesus name.
Prayer, baptism, communion, preaching, praying for the sick, etc.. all these are religious things and all those need to be done in the name of Jesus. Jesus said you have not because you ask not. That would mean we verbally ask. OF COURSE he knows our needs before we ask, that does not mean we don't need to verbally ask. Its an expression of faith in word and in deed when we prayer, a deed, and we ask in Jesus name, a word.
I understand what you are saying, really. I wish what you were saying would be true. Bible doesn't back that up and neither does history regarding baptism. How do we know what history records? Most history comes from the catholic church right and pre catholic days. I surely don't agree with them on everything but I have to take what their history says as historical.
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