A new twist on "Phariseeism?"

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Rob McKee

Christianity should be based on relationship, not law or even freedom from it.

That Freedom I spoke of, was not a freedom from the Law of God, but rather a liberation unto Jesus. There's no constraint or restrictiveness involved. It's effervescent. It's true freedom. There is a reality of choice, a beauty of walking in Grace, etc. That relationship is one because it's of the words of Jesus, drink and you'll never thirst, come and lay your burden down, follow me and you will have eternal life... promises of abundant life, life lived fully. The words are freeing.

Just because a man can stay out all night and have "buddies" that are women without his wife divorcing him, doesn't mean it's good to do that. If a man is only committed to marriage/divorce or Heaven/Hell issues he's headed to divorce court and hell. The law was a our schoolmaster...pointing us to Christ. Just because we are out of school doesn't invalidate the truth that we learned while enrolled. Motivation matters...Jesus said "if you love me keep my commandments" (John 14:15)

And what are his commandments, Rob? When Jesus said this, to what was he referring? What does it mean to the immediate audience, gospel writer, right then and there? So many hijack Jesus' words to mean "their commandments."

As an adult I push myself to learn more than while enrolled in college...not because I HAVE to...but because I WANT TO.

The truth is...EVERY church has a line of obedience to the law...even the most liberal.

What do you mean a "line of obedience to the law" -- what law? I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing? Do you mean God's law or one they've created? Why would Black Sabbath even agree to "lead worship?" at a church. I know that was only an example, but it's quite outlandish.

I don't know of many who would ask Black Sabbath to lead worship. The question is...where do you draw that line? To say that we are "free from the law" would mean we were embracing anarchy. There HAS to be law that we are subject to...(not just a undefinable puffy cloud of love of God that no one can explain).

Mt 5-7 is not a puffy cloud of abstract nothing. Loving God and others is not a puffy cloud. I fall so short of that, and by God's grace and trying to grow in this area. It could take a lifetime on, being fully formed in His image. Avoiding sexual sin, envy, bittterness, hatred, all things that bring me to death, and away from the full life Christ has promised. If I continue believing that He is Savior, He is Great, Gracious, Good and Perfect, I can do better. Sin is always a sign of unbelief... at the most fundamental heart level. If I continue in that unbelief, I reject God, my life rejects Him and I've believed the lie (to borrow Paul's words).

When we look at the end time church described in Revelation...IT IS NOT A PHARISAICAL CHURCH bound by strict adherence to the law of Moses. The Antichrist would have a hard time Pastoring that one...

It's a church that has no problems holding hands with every other religion/doctrine on earth. Who does that best describe? Either we are not living in the last days or the modern mega church in America..particularly here in Houston, describes exactly what John said would happen. Or do you think John just saw Catholics?

I think you can find plenty in your own fellowship that matches the "end time" churches (would love to have you flesh that out more by the way). What I see, are churches that are cold, Jesus is dormant, no longer the focal point, there are both those with plastic smiles and those with iron fists. Reading Revelation as a code for justifying truth today is a tough chore for any theologian. One you'll find highly controversial. But I'll leave it at that...

Contrary to what many now believe, obedience to doctrine does matter.

But what is doctrine, Rob? Yes, I believe that the doctrine that Paul talks about is important, and I also see that we have redefined it and made it something altogether different from what Paul meant. We have made doctrine styles of dress, interpretations of Scriptures, and displaced the cross and the name of Jesus. See, Doctrine is “teaching”. Teaching is important. When people say doctrine I ask them to clarify what they mean? Define it? Length of hair, skirts, no makeup, etc? When Paul speaks of it he is referring to the teachings of Jesus and nature of Jesus. We have reduced it to a few styles in the 1900’s -- talk about cheapening the word of God, we’ve made clothing styles the equivalent of substitutionary atonement. That is idolatrous. Or at the very least scandalous.


Jesus said...IF you love me...Keep my Commandments. Which commandment was he referring to? Do we get to decide? Shouldn't we keep ALL of them not just the ones that we like?
I'm not sure what you mean here. Again, which commandments are His? What does He mean, "My commandments?" Where in the Gospels does he articulate what his commandments are?

Did Jesus call the Apostle Paul? Was he in the will of God when he wrote his epistles? Should we tear out all scripture past the four gospels? If Paul spent so much time correcting the doctrine of the churches...shouldn't all doctrine matter?
Paul was sincere about keeping the teachings of Jesus. He also represents a unique time of the church -- it's beginnings. An almalgamation of Jewishness and Gentile paganry all coming together under Jesus. To Corinth, he tried to give order to their disorder and liberty (for example, 1 Cor 14, a chapter many Pentecostals ignore! Talk about ripping out scripture). He fought with those in Jude who were given over to licentiousness. Instead of seeing the glory of Jesus and freedom to life life fully, they took it as a pass to live freely unto death. Then, he spends MUCH of his pen with Judaizers, those who add to the Law (Galatians, Ephesians), those who convolute the message of Jesus. Most of the trouble with some people's handling of Pauline texts is their inability to use ANY hermeneutic, other than proof-texting. Authorial intent is gone out of the window.

Is it possible that the Endtime would not only have an Anti-Christ but also Anti-Pharisees (copyright 2010). Again...the "Endtime Apostate Church" is NOT DESCRIBED BY SCRIPTURES AS A PHARISAICAL CHURCH...but a carnal one who's flushed doctrine like a dead gerbil.
What doctrine/teaching? You're right, the teachings of Jesus are rarely mentioned in many churches today? They are either self-help social clubs, or legalistic spiritual gurus putting on shows. It's licentiousness with shallow discipleship or legalism with self-righteous odors. Both are weak on the teachings of Jesus. Thankfully, we are judged individually.

In the end, I take comfort and security and trust in the salvation the Lord has promised. I know these things only take away from the promises of God to live life fully and to see his Kingdom come on Earth as in Heaven.

They will also embrace ALL other doctrines/churches/religions and belittle those who stand for truth.
This works in a sermon, but where are you getting this from?

I have decided...I want to make sure...I'm not in THAT church. Guys...I just really really want to be saved. Nothing this world has is worth missing Heaven.

Amen -- and I have full trust, faith in Jesus Christ for that salvation.

God Bless...
Rob McKee (copyright 2010)

Comments above.

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by Socialite

From the preacher who signs his name after everything he says on FB, so to remind that his quotes are trademarked :

* The "Old Pharisee" claimed to obey the letter of the law while finding loopholes to disobey the spirit of it.
* The "New Pharisee" claims to obey the spirit of the law while finding loopholes to disobey every letter of it.
(Rob McKee)

Do you agree? Disagree? Is he missing the whole concept of who Pharisees were? Is there really an "old" and "new" Pharisee? What say you?

I recently discovered that I am not a Pharisee. I'm the opposite of a Pharisee, an "Anti-Pharisee", if you will. Jesus said they (the Pharisees) cleaned the outside of their plates, but left the inside dirty. I do just the opposite: when I do dishes, I clean the inside, but leave the outside dirty. Theres a sermon in there somewhere....


I can hear it now.....

" Now, bless God, you modern day, liberal charismatics, Hallelujah, Praise God....you're just the opposite of those Pharisees Jesus was talkin' about. You clean the inside with your honesty and love, and concern for those in need.... Can somebody say Amen?, Glory to God. But your outside is still dirty with you men wearin' your beards, and your short sleeves. Sittin' there watchin your One Eyed Devils. Say Amen. If you can't, just holler "Ouch". And you women, praise God, with your bobbed hair, and breaches, upsurpin' your mans authority.... Oh, Glory, the devils gettin' mad, praise His Holy Name, and I'm gonna have me a spell...."

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

I recently discovered that I am not a Pharisee. I'm the opposite of a Pharisee, an "Anti-Pharisee", if you will. Jesus said they (the Pharisees) cleaned the outside of their plates, but left the inside dirty. I do just the opposite: when I do dishes, I clean the inside, but leave the outside dirty. Theres a sermon in there somewhere....


I can hear it now.....

" Now, bless God, you modern day, liberal charismatics, Hallelujah, Praise God....you're just the opposite of those Pharisees Jesus was talkin' about. You clean the inside with your honesty and love, and concern for those in need.... Can somebody say Amen?, Glory to God. But your outside is still dirty with you men wearin' your beards, and your short sleeves. Sittin' there watchin your One Eyed Devils. Say Amen. If you can't, just holler "Ouch". And you women, praise God, with your bobbed hair, and breaches, upsurpin' your mans authority.... Oh, Glory, the devils gettin' mad, praise His Holy Name, and I'm gonna have me a spell...."

love it...

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

I also appreciate folks that sign their name after every FB post

A little ribbing is good for you, Rob.

Yeah, go ahead and rib Rob

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Sam

Yeah, go ahead and rib Rob

Tongue twister isn't it.

Glossalalia....

[DAII]

McKee gets SPANKED.

Max, you hit a homerun ... Paul spends considerable time dealing with the doctrines and attitudes of the judaizer ....

Funny to hear the men of circumcision come on here and wave their little pistols.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Rob McKee

Great re-post(thank you)...Great dialog...Christ sat in the seat of Moses (that one made me giggle)...Rob doesn't believe the Affirmation Statement...Rob is a buffoon.

Have a great day...if you come by GC stop by the POK Booth in the George R. Brown.
Rob McKee <---This statement has been trademarked...all rights reserved.

No, Rob doesn't believe the affirmation statement by his own admission. Yes, your posts are replete with buffoonery.

[geekette]

Originally Posted by Socialite

From the preacher who signs his name after everything he says on FB, so to remind that his quotes are trademarked :

* The "Old Pharisee" claimed to obey the letter of the law while finding loopholes to disobey the spirit of it.
* The "New Pharisee" claims to obey the spirit of the law while finding loopholes to disobey every letter of it.
(Rob McKee)

Do you agree? Disagree? Is he missing the whole concept of who Pharisees were? Is there really an "old" and "new" Pharisee? What say you?

Wait wait wait, this guy thinks his quotes are trademarked? First of all, it's "copyright" and second, there is such a thing as fair use.

As for the quote, meh.

[Rob McKee]

I will remain an Apostolic United Pentecostal Preacher...preaching the doctrine that I believe the Bible clearly teaches... Let's compare doctrinal notes in 5 years (I personally don't believe we have that long)...

We cannot both be right...our doctrine is so different. One of us will probably be lost...or maybe your definition of apostolic doctrine is such a broad way that it makes room for those that still preach the doctrine our fathers did.

And Dan... I have a father that has died and has met his reward...I'll stick with the doctrine he handed me. (Prov 6:20) I believe it worked for him. It seems to be working for over 2 million upc around the world. (not that crowds are a sign of salvation). Jesus taught that most people would be lost..I plan on doing everything I can to be one of the few.

[berkeley]

Rob, What if you are wrong? Do you believe you will get a pass for erring on the side of "caution?"