NOW, When Is Someone Saved?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by sandie

I stand corrected. Thanks.
And yes I actually do remember the context of it being said.
He James, NOT Paul...(looks at floor and shuffles feet...) also said, faith without works is dead.
Faith is faith, is it not? I can't reconcile seperating one faith from another.
Hope that makes sense.

Hey Sandie!

It's not a matter of separation, it's just qualifying what saves us. Paul's "be who you are" admonition, right along with James' are not in the context of how we are saved. Salvation is the gift of God. If we think we can earn it, we will find our wage, no matter how awesome we think we are, is still death.

[Jeffrey]

In an effort to explain succinctly what the Gospel is:

It's the complete Story of God, and the consequent good news of his final, complete and atoning work for us. The Gospel is something done in eternity, satisfied in the future and available by faith in the present, to redeem us and bring us to God.

To the unchurched, I can't really fit it into a neat propositional statement, but would rather enthusiastically invite them to hear the Story (hear the Good News!) Short of that, I struggle but offer idioms like "Jesus loves you," which without the Story (and context) admittedly sounds shallow. So we tell them it's "Good news" and then labor to tell them what it is and what it means.

The Gospel is NOT, I repeat NOT (nor ever has been) steps or how-tos. It's good news! He did it! You can get in on this the same way Abraham did (Gen 4). It's not bad news, and it won't leave you begging for a way in (trying to stammer in tongues). It's yours -- just believe. In fact, He is even working to help you believe! God elects. We respond by trusting that He is who He said He is, making our place in His story.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

In an effort to explain succinctly what the Gospel is:

It's the complete Story of God, and the consequent good news of his final, complete and atoning work for us. The Gospel is something done in eternity, satisfied in the future and available by faith in the present, to redeem us and bring us to God.

To the unchurched, I can't really fit it into a neat propositional statement, but would rather enthusiastically invite them to hear the Story (hear the Good News!) Short of that, I struggle but offer idioms like "Jesus loves you," which without the Story (and context) admittedly sounds shallow. So we tell them it's "Good news" and then labor to tell them what it is and what it means.

The Gospel is NOT, I repeat NOT (nor ever has been) steps or how-tos. It's good news! He did it! You can get in on this the same way Abraham did (Gen 4). It's not bad news, and it won't leave you begging for a way in (trying to stammer in tongues). It's yours -- just believe. In fact, He is even working to help you believe! God elects. We respond by trusting that He is who He said He is, making our place in His story.

As a former pentecostal, I no longer jump up, pump my fist, and yell. But I just did!!! Jeffrey, you articulate this better than I do, so I'm just gonna sit back, now, and let you say it!!


You know....in the Old Testament, there were things one had to do in order to be right with God, correct? Is the same true in the New Testament? If so, if we are to do this, do that, and then one more thing, what has really changed from the Old Testament to the new? The formology hasn't changed, only the methodology.

I always hear, "Well, in the Old Testament, they could only roll their sins ahead one year at a time". Well, from what you people say, we can only advance our sins ahead until the next time we talk in tongues.

Seems like the same song, second verse, to me.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by notofworks

You posted the "toofunny" thing but I was taught in bible school that I had to do whatever it took to get every part of the person under water because failure to do so would result in that person being lost if they weren't re-baptized.

From our brothers at "The True Jesus Church" tjc.org


The True Jesus Church, established by our Lord Jesus Christ, through the Holy Spirit during the time of the 'latter rain', is the restored true church of the apostolic time.

Water baptism is the sacrament for the remission of sins for regeneration. The baptism must take place in natural living water, such as the river, sea, or spring. The Baptist, who already has had received baptism of water and the Holy Spirit, conducts the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And the person receiving the baptism must be completely immersed in water with head bowed and face downward.
Receiving the Holy Spirit, evidenced by speaking in tongues, is the guarantee of our inheritance of the kingdom of heaven.

The sacrament of footwashing enables one to have a part with the Lord Jesus. It also serves as a constant reminder that one should have love, holiness, humility, forgiveness, and service. Every person who has received water baptism must have his/her feet washed in the name of Jesus Christ. Mutual footwashing may be practiced whenever is appropriate.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

From our brothers at "The True Jesus Church" tjc.org


The True Jesus Church, established by our Lord Jesus Christ, through the Holy Spirit during the time of the 'latter rain', is the restored true church of the apostolic time.

Water baptism is the sacrament for the remission of sins for regeneration. The baptism must take place in natural living water, such as the river, sea, or spring. The Baptist, who already has had received baptism of water and the Holy Spirit, conducts the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And the person receiving the baptism must be completely immersed in water with head bowed and face downward.
Receiving the Holy Spirit, evidenced by speaking in tongues, is the guarantee of our inheritance of the kingdom of heaven.

The sacrament of footwashing enables one to have a part with the Lord Jesus. It also serves as a constant reminder that one should have love, holiness, humility, forgiveness, and service. Every person who has received water baptism must have his/her feet washed in the name of Jesus Christ. Mutual footwashing may be practiced whenever is appropriate.

Ha! That's great! So we weren't the only loons! I remember the first time I baptized someone, I had this one part of me that was freaking out making sure I got them under, and the other part of me that was thinking how ridiculous it all was!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by sandie

So, when God thru Peter said, "repent AND be baptized..." he didn't really mean it?

Of course he meant it.
Baptism/mikveh should follow conversion.
And the Holy Ghost Baptism is available after conversion.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

From our brothers at "The True Jesus Church" tjc.org


The True Jesus Church, established by our Lord Jesus Christ, through the Holy Spirit during the time of the 'latter rain', is the restored true church of the apostolic time.

Water baptism is the sacrament for the remission of sins for regeneration. The baptism must take place in natural living water, such as the river, sea, or spring. The Baptist, who already has had received baptism of water and the Holy Spirit, conducts the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And the person receiving the baptism must be completely immersed in water with head bowed and face downward.
Receiving the Holy Spirit, evidenced by speaking in tongues, is the guarantee of our inheritance of the kingdom of heaven.

The sacrament of footwashing enables one to have a part with the Lord Jesus. It also serves as a constant reminder that one should have love, holiness, humility, forgiveness, and service. Every person who has received water baptism must have his/her feet washed in the name of Jesus Christ. Mutual footwashing may be practiced whenever is appropriate.

They also teach sabbath observance:

The Sabbath day, the seventh day of the week (Saturday), is a holy day, blessed and sanctified by God. It is to be observed under the Lord's grace for the commemoration of God's creation and salvation, and with the hope of eternal rest in the life to come.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I'm glad you referenced Romans 6, PO. Preceding this verse, Paul really describes the Grace of God. He does it so forcefully and clearly, that he has to make assurances to the nervous Jews that this does not equal lawlessness and people living for themselves, but rather people living fully unto Christ, because they are in Christ. Paul's description here of Baptism, is in the context of why we shouldn't (or wouldn't) continue to sin. It's not a systematic study of baptism, and in fact is only pulled in as part of this point.

Amen. The Spirit dwelling in us is the same Spirit that leads us, guides us, speaks to us, comes alongside us, comforts us, empowers us, called us to grace and will call us home.

All of the epistles are replete, confirming what Peter preached on the day of Pentecost. Death (repentance), burial (baptism) and resurrection (Holy Ghost infilling).

There is no other message - it's Acts 2:38!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Have company arriving early in the week and I need to get the house ready. Hasta luego lagarto!

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On;977685[B

]All of the epistles are replete, confirming what Peter preached on the day of Pentecost.[/B] Death (repentance), burial (baptism) and resurrection (Holy Ghost infilling).

There is no other message - it's Acts 2:38!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Have company arriving early in the week and I need to get the house ready. Hasta luego lagarto!

Not true, PO. Never again is this "Formula" repeated in the New Testament. Not once, not close, not ever. Paul never said it, John, Peter, James, no one.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Not true, PO. Never again is this "Formula" repeated in the New Testament. Not once, not close, not ever. Paul never said it, John, Peter, James, no one.

It isn't a "formula", it's truth. We shouldn't label it as steps or a formula.

Death (repentance), burial (baptism) and resurrection (Holy Ghost infilling). There is no other message.