This is a great Thread. This is what Religion has done to our World. The issue of knowing God and being saved has become a complicated mess.
Man made Religion and Temples built with hands of flesh.
God made Creation as the sufficient form of habitat to keep and sustain Man, physically and spiritually.
Until people return to the mountain or garden to pray, the list of "To Do's" will grow. It's kind of like buying land. Thousands of years ago, the "To Do's" were simple. Today, the stack of papers to sign and the complicated process is enough to confuse the best.
Religion today has become overrun with "Spiritual Attorneys", creating the Vortex of Law that has unleashed the never ending trail of another Idea and papers to sign.
If we don't simplify Faith, the World will become doomed by concepts formed in the Halls of Salvational litigation.
Hi Socialite,
I'm not going to hang out in this thread much longer.
I believe as you do and as many do here, that without faith and the grace of God we'd all be lost and headed for a hells grave. I'm getting a little tired of the questions, if you don't know what repentance is then perhaps you should look it up instead of asking me. Nothing, I repeat nothing that has been said in this thread or anywhere else I've read on this forum tells me that Acts 2:38 isn't necessary to obey. Nothing.
Either God meant what He said thru Peter or He was just kidding around (I shudder to even make such a statement).
Why that is such a stumbling block to so many I don't really understand, it's there for all to read and accept or reject.
Jesus said the way was narrow and "FEW" would be that find it. Accept God's plan of salvation or reject it, that choice is up to the individual.
No wonder Jesus said unless we believe like a child we would not be a part of His Kingdom.
All this gyration to get around a simple, yet profound truth is truly mind boggling. But, I leave such things to God.
I will continue to express the Gospel to as many as will listen and give them the instructions God has laid out on how to obey this marvelous Good News.
God bless.
Actually, Sandie, questions are a device used in discussions. They don't necessarily mean I don't know and I'm coming to you for the answer. Though, if that were the case, I'm surprised you are telling me to "look it up" instead of engaging me.
Some say Salvation by Faith alone, and believe something different. They say things like "faith is not really accepted by God until you do xyz." Or things like "real" faith is xyz? The faith ends up going back to our role in savings ourselves somehow. And it doesn't stop there. That theology extends into holiness, how we live our lives, sanctification. There are pockets in Pentecost, full of people, that have spiritual and physical anxiety: they aren't sure if what they've done is good enough. And you know what, it's not! It never will be.
It's not so much a question of "when" we are saved, by what God's role in the saving process is. We respond by believing. After believing, we participate in baptism and are invited to a life lived fully in Christ. This includes the gift of His Spirit to empower us to disciple others and to continue the Commission of Mt 28:19 (still our final marching orders from Jesus himself).
No one, I repeat no one disregards any scripture, let alone Acts 2:38.
When you "express the Gospel," what are you expressing exactly? I'm curious.
Why do you go to a narrative book to find the answer on how to be saved? And why do you skip the Jailer's account? Why do you pass over Romans? Why are you complicating an issue that has everything to do with Jesus? Who says the second chapter and 38th verse in the story of Acts is where the centrality of the Gospel lies? Where do you get this from??
we will not be reconciled. I aint even trying.
it is enough that we walk along trying to get to the same place. I am at peace with my belief as well as with you....
and as for that question about who says... I do... when I read it, the question is asked "what shall we do".
being a simple man, when an answer is provided to a question. I take it at face value.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
This is a great Thread. This is what Religion has done to our World. The issue of knowing God and being saved has become a complicated mess.
Man made Religion and Temples built with hands of flesh.
God made Creation as the sufficient form of habitat to keep and sustain Man, physically and spiritually.
Until people return to the mountain or garden to pray, the list of "To Do's" will grow. It's kind of like buying land. Thousands of years ago, the "To Do's" were simple. Today, the stack of papers to sign and the complicated process is enough to confuse the best.
Religion today has become overrun with "Spiritual Attorneys", creating the Vortex of Law that has unleashed the never ending trail of another Idea and papers to sign.
If we don't simplify Faith, the World will become doomed by concepts formed in the Halls of Salvation litigation.
NFS, the problem with this is that many of us are very much for simplification, but what we see is deconstruction.
I no issue with stripping off the varnish and getting back to the basics. But when you rip up the floorboards, jack hammer the concrete and smile about walking around on a dirt floor, you have lost me.
In cooking the terms ‘simplification’ and ‘deconstruction’ have interesting connotations. The former, means taking away the complexity and letting the main ingredient shin. With the latter, you break down the dish to its raw ingredients, then put it back together in such a way that the original classic is only vaguely recognizable. THIS is what a lot of us Oneness Pentecostals see happening with this Neo-PCI movement.
I like simplification.
I have no use for spiritual deconstruction.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
This is a great Thread. This is what Religion has done to our World. The issue of knowing God and being saved has become a complicated mess.
Man made Religion and Temples built with hands of flesh.
God made Creation as the sufficient form of habitat to keep and sustain Man, physically and spiritually.
Until people return to the mountain or garden to pray, the list of "To Do's" will grow. It's kind of like buying land. Thousands of years ago, the "To Do's" were simple. Today, the stack of papers to sign and the complicated process is enough to confuse the best.
Religion today has become overrun with "Spiritual Attorneys", creating the Vortex of Law that has unleashed the never ending trail of another Idea and papers to sign.
If we don't simplify Faith, the World will become doomed by concepts formed in the Halls of Salvational litigation.
it is enough that we walk along trying to get to the same place. I am at peace with my belief as well as with you....
and as for that question about who says... I do... when I read it, the question is asked "what shall we do".
being a simple man, when an answer is provided to a question. I take it at face value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
NFS, the problem with this is that many of us are very much for simplification, but what we see is deconstruction.
I no issue with stripping off the varnish and getting back to the basics. But when you rip up the floorboards, jack hammer the concrete and smile about walking around on a dirt floor, you have lost me.
In cooking the terms ‘simplification’ and ‘deconstruction’ have interesting connotations. The former, means taking away the complexity and letting the main ingredient shin. With the latter, you break down the dish to its raw ingredients, then put it back together in such a way that the original classic is only vaguely recognizable. THIS is what a lot of us Oneness Pentecostals see happening with this Neo-PCI movement.
I like simplification.
I have no use for spiritual deconstruction.
NFS, the problem with this is that many of us are very much for simplification, but what we see is deconstruction.
I no issue with stripping off the varnish and getting back to the basics. But when you rip up the floorboards, jack hammer the concrete and smile about walking around on a dirt floor, you have lost me.
In cooking the terms ‘simplification’ and ‘deconstruction’ have interesting connotations. The former, means taking away the complexity and letting the main ingredient shin. With the latter, you break down the dish to its raw ingredients, then put it back together in such a way that the original classic is only vaguely recognizable. THIS is what a lot of us Oneness Pentecostals see happening with this Neo-PCI movement.
I like simplification.
I have no use for spiritual deconstruction.
Modern Church does not simplify God; it has only created the firestorm of competition and more ideas that only lead to more ideas.
When Jesus retired to find depth, it was on the Mountain and in the Garden where God's Will flourished.
Sorry Ferd, but God never erected one building. We run to buildings, but God made other ways and means for us to understand Him.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
Ever since Man has tried to put God into a house made with hands, the confusion of Religion has plagued this Planet.
Modern Church does not simplify God; it has only created the firestorm of competition and more ideas that only lead to more ideas.
When Jesus retired to find depth, it was on the Mountain and in the Garden where God's Will flourished.
Sorry Ferd, but God never erected one building. We run to buildings, but God made other ways and means for us to understand Him.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
Ever since Man has tried to put God into a house made with hands, the confusion of Religion has plagued this Planet.
I love ya bro. but you are so enamored with your concepts and platitudes about simplification and how bad “modern church” is (whatever that is) that you cannot begin to grasp some very basic realities.
First of all. The Church, has always been opposed by the majority of people. 11 of the first 12 (12 of the first 13 if you count Paul) got killed for preaching the Gospel. Number 12 (or 13 depending on your count) got exiled to a prison island to finish out his days.
It was your 3rd century relevancy peeps that turned Christianity into a compromised pseudo-pagan strange watered down multi-singular-god faith that gave us the dark ages.
Jesus didn’t build any buildings but he did fast 40 days… try to get your sheep to do that and let’s find out what they like and dislike. He did give his followers “what for” when they slept thru his agony in Gethsemane. Have you held any blood-sweat all night prayer meetings lately? Great googly moogly, when was the last time ANYBODY washed someone’s feet?
Get real bro. you just have a list of things you are personally comfortable with and that is what you do. The rest is “complicated religion”.
That ain’t “simplification” that is picking and chosing.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Peter didn’t build buildings because there was already one built. They called it the Synagogue.
Paul didn’t either but he preached in one large enough for someone to fall out of a window and get killed.
The line about buildings is silly.
I don’t have a problem with house church, field church, tent church or building church.
Ive preached underneath a house built on a flood plain, Ive preached in the jungles of south America with nothing overhead but the leaves of the trees.
Ive preached in nice buildings and old worn out gymnasiums. God doesn’t care what kind of church it is so long as his people are getting together doing his thing.
But I don’t make doctrine out of the kind of building I prefer.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
__________________
I'm (sic) not cynical, I just haven't been around long enough to be Jedi mind-tricked by politics as usual. Alas, maybe in a few years I'll be beaten back into the herd. tstew
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