AFFer's are caught in the trap of American individualism.
I'm all for political freedom, but true spirituality requires bonds.
Post-modernists have taken the political and social ideals of individualism, liberty, tolerance, and an absence of absolutes and tried to apply them to Christianity.
The trouble is, it doesn't work.
Christianity involves laying down our own wishes (not my will but thine be done.)
Christianity involves sacrifice (Romans 12:1).
Christianity involves absolutes (Jesus is the way, truth and life).
Christianity involves slavery (Romans 6:18).
Appeasement is not the answer. Tolerance is not the answer.
Truth is the answer.
__________________
I'm (sic) not cynical, I just haven't been around long enough to be Jedi mind-tricked by politics as usual. Alas, maybe in a few years I'll be beaten back into the herd. tstew
I believe salvation "begins" with faith and repentance of sin. However, the saint of God is admonished by Scripture to press into the fulness of Christian living. That includes baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost, living a Christian life, and being prepared for the Lord's coming.
I love ya bro. but you are so enamored with your concepts and platitudes about simplification and how bad “modern church” is (whatever that is) that you cannot begin to grasp some very basic realities.
First of all. The Church, has always been opposed by the majority of people. 11 of the first 12 (12 of the first 13 if you count Paul) got killed for preaching the Gospel. Number 12 (or 13 depending on your count) got exiled to a prison island to finish out his days.
It was your 3rd century relevancy peeps that turned Christianity into a compromised pseudo-pagan strange watered down multi-singular-god faith that gave us the dark ages.
Jesus didn’t build any buildings but he did fast 40 days… try to get your sheep to do that and let’s find out what they like and dislike. He did give his followers “what for” when they slept thru his agony in Gethsemane. Have you held any blood-sweat all night prayer meetings lately? Great googly moogly, when was the last time ANYBODY washed someone’s feet?
Get real bro. you just have a list of things you are personally comfortable with and that is what you do. The rest is “complicated religion”.
That ain’t “simplification” that is picking and chosing.
Buildings bring God into the bondage of a manmade euphoria. The Modern Church today has become an elaborate entertainment center. Stages, sound systems, dress style, performance preaching, all this and more have created a falsified report and altars of fantasy.
Concepts develop within this manufactured environment that not only drift from God's Ultimate and initial plan for Mankind, they produce the greatest form of walking human hypocrisy on this Earth.
Ferd, your shallow approach to Faith is a total veer from reality. The Church has just as many problems as the World does, and locking people behind the bars of ORGANIZED FAITH has destroyed actual Faith by over-dogmatic and imprisoned ideas about being saved.
If Jesus was committed to "Kingdom Building", which is what Organized Religion is, He would have gladly accepted a Crown, a House, and those who ran such institutions. Instead, he drew into the Temple to overthrow tables, condemning those who ran these artificial Faces of God.
I love ya bro. but you are so enamored with your concepts and platitudes about simplification and how bad “modern church” is (whatever that is) that you cannot begin to grasp some very basic realities.
First of all. The Church, has always been opposed by the majority of people. 11 of the first 12 (12 of the first 13 if you count Paul) got killed for preaching the Gospel. Number 12 (or 13 depending on your count) got exiled to a prison island to finish out his days.
It was your 3rd century relevancy peeps that turned Christianity into a compromised pseudo-pagan strange watered down multi-singular-god faith that gave us the dark ages.
Jesus didn’t build any buildings but he did fast 40 days… try to get your sheep to do that and let’s find out what they like and dislike. He did give his followers “what for” when they slept thru his agony in Gethsemane. Have you held any blood-sweat all night prayer meetings lately? Great googly moogly, when was the last time ANYBODY washed someone’s feet?
Get real bro. you just have a list of things you are personally comfortable with and that is what you do. The rest is “complicated religion”.
That ain’t “simplification” that is picking and chosing.
Now that sounds like church, though its been about a year since i literaly washed some feet.
Buildings bring God into the bondage of a manmade euphoria. The Modern Church today has become an elaborate entertainment center. Stages, sound systems, dress style, performance preaching, all this and more have created a falsified report and altars of fantasy.
Concepts develop within this manufactured environment that not only drift from God's Ultimate and initial plan for Mankind, they produce the greatest form of walking human hypocrisy on this Earth.
Ferd, your shallow approach to Faith is a total veer from reality. The Church has just as many problems as the World does, and locking people behind the bars of ORGANIZED FAITH has destroyed actual Faith by over-dogmatic and imprisoned ideas about being saved.
If Jesus was committed to "Kingdom Building", which is what Organized Religion is, He would have gladly accepted a Crown, a House, and those who ran such institutions. Instead, he drew into the Temple to overthrow tables, condemning those who ran these artificial Faces of God.
down here in the south we call this kind of diatribe a personal manifesto. The Unibomber had one of those.
and son, you need to know a few things about me before suggesting my faith was shallow. I love you and I honestly hope you achieve all the things in Christ you want to! Be Blessed!
Pray with me that our church gets it CO so we can move into our brand spanking new multi-million dollar church! Its gonna be awesome!
PS I will post pictures really soon!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I believe salvation "begins" with faith and repentance of sin. However, the saint of God is admonished by Scripture to press into the fulness of Christian living. That includes baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost, living a Christian life, and being prepared for the Lord's coming.
How we answer the question of beginnings defines the entire journey. It's not a
"pending" status. It's cash money, in the bank, bought and paid for at believing. He did it! He did it all! We don't "apply it," "apply to qualify for it," etc... He did it. We accept that. We believe it and begin living a life trusting Him. It looks beautiful when that happens.
You can call is deconstruction, and I'm going to agree with you. I'm tearing down all the idols so many have constructed on top of the foundation called Jesus Christ. In the words of Reagan: "Tear down that wall!"
How we answer the question of beginnings defines the entire journey. It's not a
"pending" status. It's cash money, in the bank, bought and paid for at believing. He did it! He did it all! We don't "apply it," "apply to qualify for it," etc... He did it. We accept that. We believe it and begin living a life trusting Him. It looks beautiful when that happens.
You can call is deconstruction, and I'm going to agree with you. I'm tearing down all the idols so many have constructed on top of the foundation called Jesus Christ. In the words of Reagan: "Tear down that wall!"
Well at least we have one answer to the question. this fellow AFFer believes salvation happens at "beieve"
I was in the navy with a lot of fellers who believed in Jesus. You wouldnt want to know where we went and the things we did... but I guess we were all saved.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Well at least we have one answer to the question. this fellow AFFer believes salvation happens at "believe"
I was in the navy with a lot of fellers who believed in Jesus. You wouldnt want to know where we went and the things we did... but I guess we were all saved.
Oh, please. I grew up in a Pentecostal pew and I could say the same thing about the kids I knew -- and the kids I was youth pastor to in the future. Let's not act like there aren't "unbelieving 'believers'" on both sides of that aisle. The fact is, you may be surprised how lopsided your facts are there.
The kids I grew up with snotted their nose out, and wet their eyes on Sundays. They were sincerely guilty and felt like they needed a shockamoo experience to feel forgiven.
Believing isn't cognitive. It's heart-level. Anyone can say they believe. But if their actions are done from a place of unbelief, you can do that so much until you are no longer a believer. Chances are, their struggles were just like anyone else's at some point in their life.
Whether they believe or not is between them and God. It's the same as someone who comes into your church, slobbers out of their mouth and imitates the tongues of someone else -- are they believers? Who knows...
The signs of Discipleship:
1) How they love one another
2) They bear good fruit in their life
3) They abide in His Word
BTW, one of the greatest apologetics for me has been the conduct of non-Pentecostal Christians. It has been amazing to see. Which is why I take such exception to your comment.
You are SAVED from the cycle of death, I bring life.... BUT FIRST...
1) Never sin again and look extra sorry about it, or we won't think you really "repented"
2) Get baptized, and make sure you are immersed and that the exact formula is done right
3) You must speak in tongues, and if continue to seek for months, you need to figure out why God doesn't want you to have this gift.
4) You must separate yourself from the dirty world, since you are now clean and they are all dirty. You are better.
5) You must start paying tithes or you are cursed and the whole salvation thing is void!
6) You must worship exuberantly or a) we will think something is wrong with you or b) you will be vulnerable to evils spirits and your salvation will be once again, void.
good for you. i am sure you are convinced it is biblical.
saved at belief. (then in the simplicity of it all, get real complicated in explaining how belief is this deep heart thing that cant be explained easily. )
A Salam
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
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