Can church be bad for your health?

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

He said "I could name over ten times that many that can't do counseling well" - so 12 x 10 = 120.

Counselors or pastors that counsel poorly?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Berkley

Counselors or pastors that counsel poorly?

Read his post. #73

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Read his post. #73

Gotcha.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Berkley

Nobody is discussing moral health issues, you jerk. [Some] preachers make you feel guillty for every little thing that you do that doesn't please the preacher. Every service his preaching makes you feel like you're dangling over the pits of hell.It stems from your works based salvation

Who is preaching works based salvation?

Sigmund Freud despised religion, theism, and the Bible, and, although his goal was to eradicate the problem of guilt, he is ultimately responsible for confusing it. His primary motivation for psychoanalysis was to transform guilt into neurosis and sin into sickness. Freud believed that guilt must be eliminated through self-analysis and that our struggle to transcend the stifling codes of culture is inescapable unless we are willing to break out of our moral prison. Freud viewed himself as a destroyer of conventions
whose purpose was to dissociate guilt from sin, making it a problem for science rather than faith.
A careful study of Freudian thought reminds us that as long as people continue to believe in a view that
relegates the problem of guilt to biological determinism and ignores individual responsibility, Freud is
with us. Secular thinkers, for better or worse, consider him an architect of the modern mind, whereas
Christian critics name him an unholy builder of said modern mind, in the line of Marx and Darwin.
FREUDIAN GUILT: from either a dread of an external authority or dread of the demands and punishments
of the superego, an internalized authority. It is through drive-repressing guilt and the resulting
sublimations that civilization arose. Guilt also has a primeval source: the murder of the primal father.

1


Das Unbehagen in der Kultur Freud wrote that man strives for freedom. Calling certain deeds as sin is what freud calls bondage that leads to neurosis.

http://www.equip.org

In the early 1960s, psychologist and one-time president of the American Psychological Association, O. Hobart Mowrer, confronted clients with the controversial idea that people who were labeled neurotic could be helped by confessing and taking responsibility for their deviant behavior. A non-Christian, Mowrer “challenged the entire field of psychiatry, declaring it a failure, and sought to refute its fundamental Freudian presuppositions.

You may call me a jerk, but after a clinical rotation of inpatient psych, it became very obvious to me that lack of personal responsibility and rebellion was causing the industry to thrive.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by coadie

It is funny you say that. Many pastors are surprised at how much counseling they are called to do and how un prepared they are for it. I see them as relevant in many cases for counseling.

Billy Graham said if a husband and wife seriously prayed together and sought answers from the Lord together, the divorce rate would be about 1 in 400.

I know about a dozen counselors that are healthy and competant and one of the best is a friend of my pastor. Out of that dozen, i can't tell you how successfull they are regarding desired outcomes. I could name over ten times that many that can't do counseling well, mess up, get off on tangents that are irrelevant to what they are trying to treat or some other maladaptive pattern. Like the dean of my school said. The difference between a psychologist and the patient is the psychologist has "keys".

He was one of the rare, normal and solid few that I know that is competant.

In my experience, when you and your wife pray together, you better make sure that what God impresses upon you gets the pastor's approval.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Aquila

In my experience, when you and your wife pray together, you better make sure that what God impresses upon you gets the pastor's approval.

What the heck does that mean?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Berkley

What the heck does that mean?

That even when God does speak to you, some pastors still want to stamp their approval on it.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

That even when God does speak to you, some pastors still want to stamp their approval on it.

And tell you, "God didn't speak to you".

[deadeye]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Can church be bad for your health?

Someone I know has talked to a counselor about various issues and feelings they’ve been facing. The counselor found it interesting how their entire life revolved around “church” and how much of their present anxiety comes from how they feel when they attend church, though they’ve recently stopped attending regularly. The counselor decided to delve deeper into their experience with church for a few secessions. Many of the situations that they experienced in church were rather traumatic emotionally, including the loss of their marriage. The individual feels very troubled, stressed, and deeply depressed after “attending church”. Negative and hurtful thoughts and memories flood the mind when they walk through the doors. Normally after returning home they experience a deep valley of depression for a few days that frightens them. If they continue attending church they become militantly “dedicated” to the point of outbursts, anger, and unreasonableness. Eventually it snaps and they fall apart emotionally. Even when attending another church where nothing negative has happened the individual finds themselves almost in a cold sweat and feeling nearly frantic. Friends and family have pointed out that when they had been attending church in the recent two years they had become cold, unemotional, and heartless. The counselor stated that they have symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder originating from the emotional abuse, or perceived emotional abuse, that they received in church. I pulled this from a website to see if this was possible. Here is a paragraph illustrated the causes of PTSD:

What causes PTSD?
Virtually any trauma, defined as an event that is life-threatening or that severely compromises the emotional well-being of an individual or causes intense fear, may cause PTSD. Such events often include either experiencing or witnessing a severe accident or physical injury, receiving a life-threatening medical diagnosis, being the victim of kidnapping or torture, exposure to war combat or to a natural disaster, exposure to other disaster (for example, plane crash) or terrorist attack, being the victim of rape, mugging, robbery, or assault, enduring physical, sexual, emotional, or other forms of abuse, as well as involvement in civil conflict. Although the diagnosis of PTSD currently requires that the sufferer has a history of experiencing a traumatic event as defined here, people may develop PTSD in reaction to events that may not qualify as traumatic but can be devastating life events like divorce or unemployment.

It was the counselor’s opinion that after years of being in a church wherein the individual’s performance was always judged so strictly, fearsome rebukes from the pulpit issued, and unreasonable demands and accusations from leadership they person faces deep emotional trauma. Their marriage fell apart while trying to appease the church and meet unreasonable standards, schedules, and obedience. This too contributes to the emotional pain they experience in regards to discussing “church” or attending “church”. The counselor has encouraged a therapy involving rapid eye movements and has advised that the individual approach “attending church” with caution. Prescribing medication is the last resort according to these counselor, the hopes are that the individual in question can overcome their deep emotional trauma through therapeutic means not involving drugs. The counselor has also encouraged the person to find a way to maintain and practice their spirituality in alternative faith communities if they feel they must remain spiritual.

Is it possible that negative experiences with church over an extended period of time can result in PTSD or deep emotional trauma? Is it possible that after such experiences “traditional church” could be bad for the mental and emotional health of some individuals?

I fear that AFF is giving me PTSD....

[coadie]

Originally Posted by ILG

Pastors can't legally counsel unless they are a licensed counselor. They "give advice". However, most people listen to a pastor before they listen to a counselor. I see both as having been trained by a system and both might be willing to give advice just and good or bad as the other.

You have to be licensed to get reimbursement.
Rabbi's don't have to do Med school for circumcisions either.
There are lots of counseling jobs in jails, substance abuse, schools, churches and other applications that have not passed state board exams.

A Minnesota court ruled that it was barred by the first amendment from resolving a man's claim that his church and a denominational agency were responsible for the negligent counseling of his pastor that led to the breakdown of his marriage

Pastors have to abide by ethics rules and avoind misconduct. The states don't get very involved with church counseling.