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  #21  
Old 11-24-2010, 12:28 PM
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TJJJ TJJJ is offline
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Re: Homosexuality ... How do the "Advocates" deal.

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Originally Posted by coadie View Post
I will use 2 ideas. One is role playing and the other is mimicry. When kids are studied in play time, they play roles they observed adults live. Our pastors boy is playing with drum sticks, preeching and trying to baptize various creatures.

One partner plays a role to attract the other partner but that creates attraction and doesn't fill their own needs. It gets a little complicated because large numbers of gays didn't mature out of healthy parental relationships. A distant dad or non existent dad is a common example. A young lad will be straight if raised by a dad to manhood. he can be like dad. If a boy is rejected, he may play out a fantasy with another male and never mature to manhood. He will more likely remain close to his mother.
Many lesbians have an unexplained hate for males. An outsider may see it as hurt and they hate males because they were rejected in a real or imagined way by daddy. It is a coping mechanism.

If I borrow an idea from Gary Smalley in Branson, the lack of attachment is often explained by uncovering their greatest fear. If a lesbian is fearing loss of a partner, they get tough, don't submit to prevent being hurt on the partner leaving as they always do. It becomes a predicted cycle.
So are you saying that many homosexual men are that way from a disfunctional home?

Just trying to wrap my small brain around the discussion.
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  #22  
Old 11-24-2010, 12:31 PM
coadie coadie is offline
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Re: Homosexuality ... How do the "Advocates" deal.

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Originally Posted by TJJJ View Post
So are you saying that many homosexual men are that way from a disfunctional home?

Just trying to wrap my small brain around the discussion.
Dr Nicolosi and Dr James Dobson both admit they have never councelled a gay male that could describe a good relationship with their father and a father that raised them to a manhoood he himself lived.
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  #23  
Old 11-24-2010, 12:37 PM
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Re: Homosexuality ... How do the "Advocates" deal.

Regarding 1 Corinthians (this is why I didn't want to get into that here, risking a HUGE tangent), I think 11:1 is more related to Chapter 10 and that 11:2 is where the Chapter (new thought, or continuing thought, begins).

After prohibiting Corinthians from becoming involved in pagan worship, Paul not turns to address three items of abuse in their own assemblies: a concern related to women's head coverings or hairstyles when praying or prophesying; the abuse of the poor at the Lord's Table; and the abuse of speaking in tongues in the assembly (Chps 12-14). This topic, in Chapter 11, is the only one that begins "now about," indicating it is likely something that was mentioned in their letter to Paul. 1 Corinthians 11:2-14 seem to be divided into 3 logical arguments that Paul makes.

vv3-6 Paul uses a metaphorical usage of the word "head" (before later employing a more literal use regarding "coverings" on their head).

Fee argues that the "head" metaphor is not hierarchical, setting up an authority structure (in fact, the only usage of exousia refers to the woman's own authority in v10). The metaphor for head to mean "chief" or "person of highest rank" is rare in Greek literature. Paul's probably use of "head" here is as "source" or "source of life." Paul's concern is not hierarchical, but relational.

That said, I do believe that Paul here, is supporting social order and customs based on the concept of "life source."

No, in all my friendships with unbelievers in the city where I live (that are homosexual), I have not been aware of any particular domestic violence problem unique to homosexuals... or even a problem in general. So we are anecdotal vs. anecdotal. You also mentioned many homosexuals being former Pentecostals? Could this be because those are who you know and affiliated with (you yourself being a Pentecostal) and that a guy who was a tradesman, may know more homosexuals that are tradesmen? This is the danger of either of us forming conclusions based on anecdotal evidence.

You seem to be implying that because homosexuals break God's order of "headship" (not entirely sure what you mean), that there is more havoc in their homes. I think I can find other ways to suggest homosexual homes break God's design and purposes for us to live full and healthy lives. But I think it's a stretch to say they have relational problems above and beyond what other romantic partners have.

Many homosexuals assume roles prior to going into relationships. It's not like "who's going to be the man or woman", but rather, and they have their own language for this, they go by personality. Some are more mild, less decisive and they defer to the more decisive and aggressive one.

I would thnk the biggest instances of "domestic violence" among homosexuals is perpetrated by hateful heterosexuals.

Your point is made by advocacy groups like this:
http://fathersforlife.org/gay_issues/gay_dv.htm
http://www.lambda.org/DV_background.htm

Of course, they reason and argue for different factors (read the second link)
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  #24  
Old 11-24-2010, 12:39 PM
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Re: Homosexuality ... How do the "Advocates" deal.

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Originally Posted by deadeye View Post
I have family members and acquaintances that either are in the Gay lifestyle or were there...(one has been delivered and has lived a happy married life for years)

And without exception they all were molested as children or teens, and several of them deal with very abusive relationships....it seems very common in the Gay community.
There could be truth to this... not sure if confirms the theory/argument made by TJJJ about "headship" though.

Still, it's clear by other research done on homosexuality, that not all homosexuals (or even most) suffered childhood trauma/abuse.
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  #25  
Old 11-24-2010, 12:40 PM
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Re: Homosexuality ... How do the "Advocates" deal.

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Originally Posted by coadie View Post
Dr Nicolosi and Dr James Dobson both admit they have never councelled a gay male that could describe a good relationship with their father and a father that raised them to a manhoood he himself lived.
I respect Dr. Dobson (even though I've disagreed with his positions at times), but I would also like to hear what ALL counselors say. Dobson seems to be saying it's universal that all homosexuals have abusive childhoods.
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  #26  
Old 11-24-2010, 12:41 PM
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Re: Homosexuality ... How do the "Advocates" deal.

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Originally Posted by coadie View Post
Dr Nicolosi and Dr James Dobson both admit they have never councelled a gay male that could describe a good relationship with their father and a father that raised them to a manhoood he himself lived.
Now that is interesting. I will have to check their resources. Do you have a link?

I believe that if we are going to help everyone, or do our best, that we must understand that there are more ingredients in these situations than just saying, Homosexuals, throw them away.

More and more I am seeing that the home structure is of utmost importance in the formation of men and women. The home discipline and home authority, within the realm of righteousness and truth, is more important than the traditional church scene.

Traditional Christianity had handed the responsibility of the family off to the church expecting the church to take care of what should be take care of in the home.

God help us all.
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  #27  
Old 11-24-2010, 12:42 PM
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Re: Homosexuality ... How do the "Advocates" deal.

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Originally Posted by TJJJ View Post
Correct. Myself, as a declared heterosexual Christian, asking about those who claim to be homosexual Christian. Again, I am not condemning or condoning. I am stating my position so that you may understand where I am coming from.

I use the word ADVOCATE, as I do not have any other word to use. Forgive my ignorance. If there is another term I will use it.

Advocate
AD'VOCATE, n. [L. advocatus, from advoco, to call for, to plead for; of ad and voco, to call. See Vocal.]

1. Advocate, in its primary sense, signifies, one who pleads the cause of another in a court of civil law.
Well, of course, we don't believe that it's possible to be a disciple of Jesus and to continue in living as a homosexual. That's an easy one. If the reasoning by God is connected to headship or not though, I think you have your argument cut out for you. One with maybe not enough dots to connect.

I didn't need Merriam. I just wanted to clarify what YOU meant. We often use terms or phrases with something specific in mind.
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  #28  
Old 11-24-2010, 12:45 PM
coadie coadie is offline
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Re: Homosexuality ... How do the "Advocates" deal.

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Originally Posted by Socialite View Post
more decisive and aggressive one.

I would thnk the biggest instances of "domestic violence" among homosexuals is perpetrated by hateful heterosexuals. Your point is made by advocacy groups like this:
http://fathersforlife.org/gay_issues/gay_dv.htm
http://www.lambda.org/DV_background.htm

Of course, they reason and argue for different factors (read the second link)
Typical extreme leftist claptrap.

When leftsts make claims of hate is is often becuse the truth hurts an image they want to present.

It is a way for you to hijack a good discussion.
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  #29  
Old 11-24-2010, 12:47 PM
coadie coadie is offline
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Re: Homosexuality ... How do the "Advocates" deal.

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Originally Posted by TJJJ View Post
Now that is interesting. I will have to check their resources. Do you have a link?

I believe that if we are going to help everyone, or do our best, that we must understand that there are more ingredients in these situations than just saying, Homosexuals, throw them away.

More and more I am seeing that the home structure is of utmost importance in the formation of men and women. The home discipline and home authority, within the realm of righteousness and truth, is more important than the traditional church scene.

Traditional Christianity had handed the responsibility of the family off to the church expecting the church to take care of what should be take care of in the home.

God help us all.
Nicolosi is NARTH Dobson is Focus on the Family and now retired. Dr Dobson has had attacks and death threats from the gays for several decades.
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  #30  
Old 11-24-2010, 12:49 PM
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Re: Homosexuality ... How do the "Advocates" deal.

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Originally Posted by coadie View Post
Typical extreme leftist claptrap.

When leftsts make claims of hate is is often becuse the truth hurts an image they want to present.

It is a way for you to hijack a good discussion.
Why must everything with you be leftists claptrap?

I was a believer in HS and I know how cruel I was to open homosexuals, and I witnessed violence done to them by others.

Who is hijacking a discussion? Your "leftist" blatherings are a good hijacking.
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