born of water

[good samaritan]

The moment a person puts their faith in Jesus the road to salvation begins. Repentance, water baptism in Jesus name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost should be the first response to this new found faith. Will God make exceptions? That is His business, but for those who know the truth about water and spirit baptism I don't believe you can make it without it. It is not about protocol in a religion, but it is about obedience in a relationship.

[shazeep]

very well put, imo.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

The moment a person puts their faith in Jesus the road to salvation begins. Repentance, water baptism in Jesus name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost should be the first response to this new found faith. Will God make exceptions? That is His business, but for those who know the truth about water and spirit baptism I don't believe you can make it without it. It is not about protocol in a religion, but it is about obedience in a relationship.

Exactly!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

I hear you. Too often, baptism is preached but the full gospel is not! That is why it becomes essential to
preach the full gospel message.
Jesus said, "...he that believes not is condemned." So a person can be condemned even if one is baptized,
because he believed not! Or we can possibly fulfill all the elements of church tradition and still be lost because
"...he has not believed in the NAME of the only begotten son of God."

There are too many denominations that are not only detracting from the scriptures, but they would also delete
baptism, and even the NAME of Jesus from baptism! Or find a "more convenient" definition for His NAME.

There is only ONE gospel that saves: it is found in the mouth or writings of the Lord Jesus Christ, (Mk. 16:16);
the Apostle Peter, (Acts 2:38); and the Apostle Paul, (I Cor. 15:1-4).

That is the gospel I preach.

Bingo!

[Hesetmefree238]

Originally Posted by Sean

Did you know, that if someone NEVER gets baptized after receiving the Holy Ghost, and continues in sin, that they are not saved?

Why are they not saved?

They have received the Spirit, Right?

The Spirit alone does not guarantee salvation, it is primarily a tool used by God to cause us to become hungry for spiritual things, like wanting to be baptized and giving us a desire to stop sinning.


That is why the Bible terms WATER BAPTISM for the REMISSION of sins.

Spirit infilling is not for the remission of sins, but to lead a soul to get themselves water baptized for the remission of sins.

We both believe baptism is part of the plan of salvation. I'm a Jesus name guy, but my point is I disagree with your description of a person filled with the Spirit, but that has not yet been water baptized. When a person is filled with the Spirit the life of Christ enters that person. They are born again, born of the Spirit. They have been made a new creature in Christ. Their heart and spirit has experienced a transformation and life giving regeneration. The inner man has been rebirthed.

So, my point is the Spirit of Christ puts the life of Christ in a believer and it is testimony and confirmation from God that he has honored the recipient's faith in Jesus and has forgiven their sins. (God doesn't fill unforgiven people. The Spirit bears witness of our sins being forgiven and that we are a part of the family of God) None of this does away with the fact that the Spirit filled believer must be baptized in Jesus name. Peter commanded this, but a person filled with the Spirit now has the life of Christ within them.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Hesetmefree238

We both believe baptism is part of the plan of salvation. I'm a Jesus name guy, but my point is I disagree with your description of a person filled with the Spirit, but that has not yet been water baptized. When a person is filled with the Spirit the life of Christ enters that person. They are born again, born of the Spirit. They have been made a new creature in Christ. Their heart and spirit has experienced a transformation and life giving regeneration. The inner man has been rebirthed.

So, my point is the Spirit of Christ puts the life of Christ in a believer and it is testimony and confirmation from God that he has honored the recipient's faith in Jesus and has forgiven their sins. (God doesn't fill unforgiven people. The Spirit bears witness of our sins being forgiven and that we are a part of the family of God) None of this does away with the fact that the Spirit filled believer must be baptized in Jesus name. Peter commanded this, but a person filled with the Spirit now has the life of Christ within them.

Can you see the contradiction above (bold letters)?

Could Jesus have risen and not been buried? Could he have been buried, and not died? The Lord Jesus HAD to fulfill everything.

Either we don't need to be baptized and we have eternal life through the Holy Spirit; or baptism is for "...remission of sins..."
and we need to be baptized. Can't have it both ways. Remember, it was not Peter that commanded:
he was speaking by the Holy Spirit!

We have been given a promise, and it is based on "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ
for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." So if a person repents and receives the
Holy Spirit, the eternal life IN the Holy Spirit is still conditional on "remission of sins"! That has done been invalidated. God is
still in the business of not imputing sin...and is still merciful.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Hesetmefree238

We both believe baptism is part of the plan of salvation. I'm a Jesus name guy, but my point is I disagree with your description of a person filled with the Spirit, but that has not yet been water baptized. When a person is filled with the Spirit the life of Christ enters that person. They are born again, born of the Spirit. They have been made a new creature in Christ. Their heart and spirit has experienced a transformation and life giving regeneration. The inner man has been rebirthed.

So, my point is the Spirit of Christ puts the life of Christ in a believer and it is testimony and confirmation from God that he has honored the recipient's faith in Jesus and has forgiven their sins. (God doesn't fill unforgiven people. The Spirit bears witness of our sins being forgiven and that we are a part of the family of God) None of this does away with the fact that the Spirit filled believer must be baptized in Jesus name. Peter commanded this, but a person filled with the Spirit now has the life of Christ within them.

Well, the Lord can forgive a sinner, fill them with His Spirit and they can continue sinning the next day.
This makes them sinful.
My point is that the Holy Ghost does not deal with the SIN NATURE like water baptism does.....Romans 6
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.




The Lord can forgive a person of theirs past sins and fill them with the Holy Ghost, but that does not cover their sin nature that is still alive. Water Baptism KILLS the sin nature in the "spiritual" sense as the Lord sees' it.

After water baptism, the Lord does not see us as sinners, but as DEAD to SIN!

If a person is not baptized after receiving the Holy Ghost, the Lord simply sees' him as a sinner with the Holy Ghost.

[Hesetmefree238]

I do believe a person is incomplete if they have not been baptized in Jesus name. They are missing something that is scriptural and part of God's plan, and it's very important that they be baptized in Jesus name. I believe repentance and even being filled with the Holy Ghost are incomplete without baptism, however I'm stating that the Spirit of Christ puts the life of Christ within a believer. Yes, a person still needs to bury the old man, but it is not the act of baptism itself that changes a person on the inside, that can only be done through the influence of the Holy Ghost converting a person's heart from the inside out. The work of the Holy Spirit / Spirit of Christ does the following:
- It transforms our nature
- It converts our heart
- It puts the LIFE OF CHRIST within us (the Spirit of Christ is the Life of
(Christ)
- It bears witness to the fact that we are accepted and forgiven by God. He has bore witness to our faith and confirmed it by filling us with His Spirit

This doesn't negate the necessity of baptism. It's still part of his new covenant plan, but neither does the fact that we must be baptized in Jesus name negate the fact that we receive the life of Christ when we are filled with his Spirit.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Sean

My point is that the Holy Ghost does not deal with the SIN NATURE like water baptism does....

If a person is not baptized after receiving the Holy Ghost, the Lord simply sees' him as a sinner with the Holy Ghost. [/COLOR]

Brother, please stop. Really. Please.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Hesetmefree238

I do believe a person is incomplete if they have not been baptized in Jesus name. They are missing something that is scriptural and part of God's plan, and it's very important that they be baptized in Jesus name. I believe repentance and even being filled with the Holy Ghost are incomplete without baptism, however I'm stating that the Spirit of Christ puts the life of Christ within a believer. Yes, a person still needs to bury the old man, but it is not the act of baptism itself that changes a person on the inside, that can only be done through the influence of the Holy Ghost converting a person's heart from the inside out. The work of the Holy Spirit / Spirit of Christ does the following:
- It transforms our nature
- It converts our heart
- It puts the LIFE OF CHRIST within us (the Spirit of Christ is the Life of
(Christ)
- It bears witness to the fact that we are accepted and forgiven by God. He has bore witness to our faith and confirmed it by filling us with His Spirit

This doesn't negate the necessity of baptism. It's still part of his new covenant plan, but neither does the fact that we must be baptized in Jesus name negate the fact that we receive the life of Christ when we are filled with his Spirit.

Sound doctrine! Amen!

We renounce and surrender the old man figuratively in baptism. In other words, we give something to God for him to make new. At Holy Ghost baptism he makes it new.