The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

This is odd. You seem to bounce between being declared righteous, and earning righteousness or becoming righteous. Righteousness is a position we have in Christ, not something we earn through our own efforts to release sin.

Exact-a-luciolo!!! It's frustrating. Those two statements I compared are TOTALLY different, correct? I've been wishing you were around for this discussion. And by the way, I LOVE your tag-line "Cross-examine it".

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by notofworks

"Notice what large letters I use as I write these closing words in my own handwriting. Those who are trying to force you to be circumcised are doing it for just one reason. They don't want to be persecuted for teaching that the cross of Christ alone can save."

Galatians 6:11-12 NLT


These things really hit me today as I read this today:
1) The cross of Christ alone can save.
2) If we add one thing at all to the saving power of the cross, we can add anything. When does it stop?
3) Among all the debates as to how many steps there are to salvation, we seem to miss the fact that the only step that matters is the step taken by Christ on the cross.
4) There clearly is a cost to pay if one teaches that the cross of Christ alone can save.

This thread won't go away. I wasn't going to read it b/c I was way to far behind to catch up, but I'm curious what could be said for 120 pages. It will take me a few days to go through it.

But I will start with this questiong for NOW. If the cross of Christ ALONE can/does save, are you not implying the very same argument used by universalists to defend their teaching?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

This is odd. You seem to bounce between being declared righteous, and earning righteousness or becoming righteous. Righteousness is a position we have in Christ, not something we earn through our own efforts to release sin.

You're listening to notofworks' distortion of my words. Read what I said, myself, throughout the last several days.

I never said righteousness is earned. Somehow, notofworks turned my description of repentance into earning righteousness. I tried saying for days now that when I spoke of releasing sin before I could get the Holy Ghost that it was an instance of me refusing to repent. I was holding ontpo sins that I had no desire to release. I knew deep inside they were wrong, but demanded God show me they were wrong after He filled me with His Spirit. So I continued on with those sins. IOW, I DID NOT ACTUALLY REPENT.

That is all I was saying to begin with, but n.o.w. refused to accept that explanation and for some reason does not want to believe I only described my lack of repentance.

Without repentance, God cannot give us anything, let alone the Holy Ghost. In other words, I cannot get IN CHRIST with sin in my life. And I cannot get rid of sin except by repentance.

Of course righteousness is a state of being we obtain just by being in Christ and it is a gift to us that cannot be earned.

1 John 1 said it well. If we SAY we walk in the light, and commit sin or walk in darkness, we lie. We must confess our sin, which I was not willing to do at the point I described, and God is faithful to wash and cleanse us from all sin. That is REPENTANCE. I refused to so much as confess that some sins were indeed sins. So God could not wash them from me. Get it? lol How you guys make that a concept of earning righteousness is beyond me.

Why do you take EFFORTS TO RELEASE SIN to be something more than repentance? I am only explaining what REPENTANCE is.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by notofworks

But if one says that HE did something and as a result, got saved....well, it just is what it is. Sorry.

Yeah, like he REPENTED, and got saved. Salvation by works. Riigghhht.

Sorry, there is DO we must DO.

Acts 2:37-38 KJV Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:6 KJV He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.

The problem is some cannot distinguish between "saving works" to get faith, and SAVING FAITH "THAT WORKS".

Knowing that all that I have been trying to say was that I HAD TO REPENT before I could get the Holy Ghost, makes your words, as far as I am concerned, sound like you believe repentance does not have to be done in order to be saved. God saves us in our sins, and those sins do not have to be repented of. If repentance does not involve letting go of sins on our parts, then I have no clue what you think repentance actually is.

Sorry. I do not accept a "repentless" Gospel.

If repentance is not something that involves a releasing of sins, then what is it? lol

That idea sounds like the idea that an Assembly of God pastor proposed when he was shocked to think people still believed they had to repent in order to be saved.

So we're at loggerheads. You will not believe I deny salvation by works, and I will not believe you deny a repentless gospel. So let's carry on from here. Case closed between us!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

But I will start with this questiong for NOW. If the cross of Christ ALONE can/does save, are you not implying the very same argument used by universalists to defend their teaching?

The only people who claim there is NOTHING we must do to be saved, apart from any distinction of erring salvation by works and correct faith THAT WORKS, are the universal reconciliationists. You're right. Repentance is a WORK, but since it is not done to earn righteousness, it is not part of "salvation by works."

As LIGHT said, there are folks who have no concept of covenants and responsibilities of both parties entering a covenant. It's like God signs His name and we sign nothing, and yet somehow we are in covenant. lol

I already proved where Jesus said BELIEF is a WORK in John 6. But it is not a WORK that earns righteousness.

So, when folks come along and say baptism as part of salvation is "salvation by works", they really do not understand what the bible teaches about what sort of works are involved in "salvation by works". And you just cannot tell them, either.

You just get

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You're listening to notofworks' distortion of my words. Read what I said, myself, throughout the last several days.

I never said righteousness is earned. Somehow, notofworks turned my description of repentance into earning righteousness. I tried saying for days now that when I spoke of releasing sin before I could get the Holy Ghost that it was an instance of me refusing to repent. I was holding ontpo sins that I had no desire to release. I knew deep inside they were wrong, but demanded God show me they were wrong after He filled me with His Spirit. So I continued on with those sins. IOW, I DID NOT ACTUALLY REPENT.

That is all I was saying to begin with, but n.o.w. refused to accept that explanation and for some reason does not want to believe I only described my lack of repentance.

Without repentance, God cannot give us anything, let alone the Holy Ghost. In other words, I cannot get IN CHRIST with sin in my life. And I cannot get rid of sin except by repentance.

Of course righteousness is a state of being we obtain just by being in Christ and it is a gift to us that cannot be earned.

1 John 1 said it well. If we SAY we walk in the light, and commit sin or walk in darkness, we lie. We must confess our sin, which I was not willing to do at the point I described, and God is faithful to wash and cleanse us from all sin. That is REPENTANCE. I refused to so much as confess that some sins were indeed sins. So God could not wash them from me. Get it? lol How you guys make that a concept of earning righteousness is beyond me.

Why do you take EFFORTS TO RELEASE SIN to be something more than repentance? I am only explaining what REPENTANCE is.

Actually I didn't read NOW's stuff, I read the post one of yours that I quoted so NOW didn't poison the water hole at all.

I could not disagree with the above bolded statement more. Repentance is not me becoming perfect or getting all the sin out of my life. It is me accepting the fact that He paid for my sins, will forgive them and begins the process of cleaning me up and removing the result of sin from my life. I might walk out the door and light up a cigarette and it may be decades or more before that is removed from my life, if ever.

I might struggle and fail many times in many areas, in fact I don't believe I will ever eradicate sin from my being in this life.

You seem to saying that you have to get good to get God. That somehow I can clean myself up enough for God to accept me.

I say the Scripture teaches the exact opposite that we have nothing to offer Him and all our righteousness, the very best we can do, is equivalent to a pile of used maxi-pads.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Actually I didn't read NOW's stuff, I read the post one of yours that I quoted so NOW didn't poison the water hole at all.

Ok, sorry to NOW for that thought.

I could not disagree with the above bolded statement more. Repentance is not me becoming perfect or getting all the sin out of my life. It is me accepting the fact that He paid for my sins, will forgive them and begins the process of cleaning me up and removing the result of sin from my life. I might walk out the door and light up a cigarette and it may be decades or more before that is removed from my life, if ever.

But repentance is also CONFESSION that sin is sin, and that is what I had not done.

I might struggle and fail many times in many areas, in fact I don't believe I will ever eradicate sin from my being in this life.

Christ died so we could experience that death in God's eyes, and not see sin have dominion any more. I think that means we can get to the place by faith that we actually walk after the Spirit and not sin. But anyway, stumbling and falling was not the point I made in releasing sin. It was my refusal to confess it was sin, and refusal to recognize it as sin.

You seem to saying that you have to get good to get God. That somehow I can clean myself up enough for God to accept me.

No. We do not get washed up before jumping in the bathtub. But I have been trying to say over and over again that I was not confessing sin was sin, and desired to hold onto it, not convinced it was indeed sin at all, when it was. I cannot free my self from sin any more than anyone else can. But when I talked of getting rid of sin, I meant doing the only thing we can do, which is confess it is sin and admit it AND WANT FREEDOM FROM IT. That's all.

I did not want freedom from it and refused to call it sin. And y'all have to take it up with God, but when I finally confessed it and THEREBY RELEASED IT, I was filled with the Holy Ghost! THAT IS WHAT I MEANT BY LETTING GO OF SIN.

Does that make more sense now? lol

You're preaching to the choir. I agree with you. But somehow my words are being turned into something I never meant by everyone here. lol I only blame myself for lack of clarity.

I say the Scripture teaches the exact opposite that we have nothing to offer Him and all our righteousness, the very best we can do, is equivalent to a pile of used maxi-pads.

I agree! However, I was only saying I DID NOT ACKNOWLEDGE SIN AS SIN. That is what I meant, and no matter how much I try to clarify that, it seems no one is getting it.

If I said it once, I said it a hundred times... REPENTANCE is what I lacked. That is all.

Whew!

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by jason badejo

but i will start with this questiong for now. If the cross of christ alone can/does save, are you not implying the very same argument used by universalists to defend their teaching?

exhibit a

Originally Posted by crakjak

that's what i been saying, so i agree with you!!!

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

This thread won't go away. I wasn't going to read it b/c I was way to far behind to catch up, but I'm curious what could be said for 120 pages. It will take me a few days to go through it.

But I will start with this questiong for NOW. If the cross of Christ ALONE can/does save, are you not implying the very same argument used by universalists to defend their teaching?

Honestly, you raise an interesting point and one I won't run from. I believe you've questioned me previously (as have others) if I was a universalist and my answer then, as it is now, is no. But I hafta tell you...the way I see some on this forum speak to those who are universalists is usually very condescending and makes me sometimes hope the Unies are right.

But as to your question...I believe salvation is in the cross alone because the bible says it is. Plain and simple. And it's the verse that started this thread, and for the most part, it has stayed on topic. Is it something a universalist would use? Maybe. And to be honest Jason, if the universalists are right, it's not gonna bother me. I wouldn't be upset one bit.

Here's what I mean, and the bible means (in my opinion) when I, and it, says, "The cross of Christ alone can save".....all the work of salvation...ALL....was done on the cross. We do NOTHING. Period. It's completely available and ready without cost. Your part? Say "Yes" and saying "Yes" is not a work, not an accomplishment, not something you can do that others can't, it's not anything. At all. But that simple act of repentance...saying "yes"....turning....to the COMPLETE salvational work of the cross of Jesus Christ. That is what is meant when we see the statement, "The cross of Christ alone can save."

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Actually I didn't read NOW's stuff, I read the post one of yours that I quoted so NOW didn't poison the water hole at all.

I could not disagree with the above bolded statement more. Repentance is not me becoming perfect or getting all the sin out of my life. It is me accepting the fact that He paid for my sins, will forgive them and begins the process of cleaning me up and removing the result of sin from my life. I might walk out the door and light up a cigarette and it may be decades or more before that is removed from my life, if ever.

I might struggle and fail many times in many areas, in fact I don't believe I will ever eradicate sin from my being in this life.

You seem to saying that you have to get good to get God. That somehow I can clean myself up enough for God to accept me.

I say the Scripture teaches the exact opposite that we have nothing to offer Him and all our righteousness, the very best we can do, is equivalent to a pile of used maxi-pads.

Bolded....I just ran the aisles. Ok, I would NEVER run the aisles, but you get my drift. Well said.

This is why I just beat my head against the wall when Mike, and many others, really, say they got rid of sin in their life and THEN got saved.