Public school and the Christian parent

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Here's a wondrous idea:

Instead of engaging Esaias with mere disagreement, emotional kneejerks, or unqualified assertions, attempt to take all that he has posted from the Holy Scriptures and show him, from those very passages, how and why his understanding is wrong.

Imagine if you reasoned with him on that level (since that is the level with which he generated this thread) it might actually get somewhere edifying.

But Votive, that takes work....

[Esaias]

From the first post:

1 God holds parents accountable for their children's education and upbringing:

Deuteronomy 6:6-7 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: (7) And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Nurture: paideia
Thayer's Definition:
1) the whole training and education of children (which relates to the cultivation of mind and morals, and employs for this purpose now commands and admonitions, now reproof and punishment) It also includes the training and care of the body
2) whatever in adults also cultivates the soul, especially by correcting mistakes and curbing passions.
2a) instruction which aims at increasing virtue
2b) chastisement, chastening, (of the evils with which God visits men for their amendment)

“Bring them up, etc - Εκτρεφετε αυτα εν παιδειᾳ και νουθεσια Κυριου· literally, Nourish them in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. The mind is to be nourished with wholesome discipline and instruction, as the body is with proper food. Παιδεια, discipline, may refer to all that knowledge which is proper for children, including elementary principles and rules for behavior, etc. Νουθεσια, instruction, may imply whatever is necessary to form the mind; to touch, regulate, and purify the passions; and necessarily includes the whole of religion. Both these should be administered in the Lord - according to his will and word, and in reference to his eternal glory. All the important lessons and doctrines being derived from his revelation, therefore they are called the discipline and instruction of the Lord.” (Clarke's Commentary)

“But bring them up - Place them under such discipline and instruction that they shall become acquainted with the Lord.
In the nurture - ἐν παιδεία en paideia. The word used here means “training of a child;” hence education, instruction, discipline. Here it means that they are to train up their children in such a manner as the Lord approves; that is, they are to educate them for virtue and religion.” (Barne's Notes)

Parents are commanded to teach their children, therefore they are accountable for their children's education, it's content, and morality. The education of children is nowhere mandated in scripture to anyone but parents. Anyone else who teaches children does so as proxies of the parents, and therefore as their agents. Therefore whatever is taught, the parents are accountable for.

[Esaias]

American Federation of Teachers, second largest teacher's union in America: some history:

Facing opposition from politicians and boards of education, membership in AFT declined to 7,000 by 1930. During this period, the organization had little impact on local or national education policy.[5]

AFT membership climbed during the Great Depression, reaching 33,000 by 1939. During the 1930s, AFT, whose members had historically been primary school teachers, saw influential college professors join the union. Also during the 1930s, the Communist Party gained influence within the AFT.[5] In 1941, under pressure from the AFL, the union ejected three local unions in New York City and Philadelphia (including its prominent early member, the New York City Teachers Union, AFT Local 5) for being communist-dominated. The charter revocations represented nearly a third of the union's national membership.[7]

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ameri...on_of_Teachers

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

From the first post:

1 God holds parents accountable for their children's education and upbringing:

Deuteronomy 6:6-7 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: (7) And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Nurture: paideia
Thayer's Definition:
1) the whole training and education of children (which relates to the cultivation of mind and morals, and employs for this purpose now commands and admonitions, now reproof and punishment) It also includes the training and care of the body
2) whatever in adults also cultivates the soul, especially by correcting mistakes and curbing passions.
2a) instruction which aims at increasing virtue
2b) chastisement, chastening, (of the evils with which God visits men for their amendment)

“Bring them up, etc - Εκτρεφετε αυτα εν παιδειᾳ και νουθεσια Κυριου· literally, Nourish them in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. The mind is to be nourished with wholesome discipline and instruction, as the body is with proper food. Παιδεια, discipline, may refer to all that knowledge which is proper for children, including elementary principles and rules for behavior, etc. Νουθεσια, instruction, may imply whatever is necessary to form the mind; to touch, regulate, and purify the passions; and necessarily includes the whole of religion. Both these should be administered in the Lord - according to his will and word, and in reference to his eternal glory. All the important lessons and doctrines being derived from his revelation, therefore they are called the discipline and instruction of the Lord.” (Clarke's Commentary)

“But bring them up - Place them under such discipline and instruction that they shall become acquainted with the Lord.
In the nurture - ἐν παιδεία en paideia. The word used here means “training of a child;” hence education, instruction, discipline. Here it means that they are to train up their children in such a manner as the Lord approves; that is, they are to educate them for virtue and religion.” (Barne's Notes)

Parents are commanded to teach their children, therefore they are accountable for their children's education, it's content, and morality. The education of children is nowhere mandated in scripture to anyone but parents. Anyone else who teaches children does so as proxies of the parents, and therefore as their agents. Therefore whatever is taught, the parents are accountable for.

I agree with you, to a point. I believe the parent's duty before God is strictly in relation to religious/spiritual education and teaching. For example, if a child desires to get into robotics, the parent isn't responsible for teaching the child robotics. Of course, the parent can help steer the child the direction they desire to go, but the educational institutions capable of teaching robotics need not be "Christian". The child must be taught the beliefs and practices of the faith by the parents, and the child must be prepared to engage an unbelieving world, by the parents.

I'm terrible at algebra and trig. If God holds me responsible for teaching that to my child, roast me now. lol

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I agree with you, to a point. I believe the parent's duty before God is strictly in relation to religious/spiritual education and teaching. For example, if a child desires to get into robotics, the parent isn't responsible for teaching the child robotics. Of course, the parent can help steer the child the direction they desire to go, but the educational institutions capable of teaching robotics need not be "Christian". The child must be taught the beliefs and practices of the faith by the parents, and the child must be prepared to engage an unbelieving world, by the parents.

I'm terrible at algebra and trig. If God holds me responsible for teaching that to my child, roast me now. lol

Use teaching software.

or send them to me, I aced Algebra and pre Calculus

Don't ask me about grammar though

my college grammar text was written by Noam Chomsky

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1614278040/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Use teaching software.

or send them to me, I aced Algebra and pre Calculus

Don't ask me about grammar though

my college grammar text was written by Noam Chomsky

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1614278040/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

I don't think you got the point.

There are times when the parents are not capable of teaching certain subjects, especially as they get more advanced. To say that a parent's SALVATION is predicated upon always insuring that their child is being taught by a Christian institution or Christian person is silly. The parent is responsible for teaching the foundational truths of the Christian faith, and perhaps whatever else they can teach based on their own experience. But there comes a time when a parent has to allow their child to experience the real world, the world we live in.

When you look at it closely... a lot of these Reconstructionist thinkers often teach that parents are Hell bound if they send their child to any educational institution that isn't Christian... and guess who has big money invested in private Christian education, home schooling curriculums, etc.??? The Reconstructionists. lol

I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to ensure that your kids are educated by Christians as much as possible. What I am saying is that a parent's soul isn't going to be lost if they send their kid to a secular summer camp, a public school, or a charter school. It's just silly.

Now, a parent will be held accountable by God for not teaching the foundations of the Christian faith to their children. That I can agree with.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

my college grammar text was written by Noam Chomsky

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1614278040/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

Noam Chomsky? The social anarchist??? lol

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I agree with you, to a point. I believe the parent's duty before God is strictly in relation to religious/spiritual education and teaching. For example, if a child desires to get into robotics, the parent isn't responsible for teaching the child robotics. Of course, the parent can help steer the child the direction they desire to go, but the educational institutions capable of teaching robotics need not be "Christian". The child must be taught the beliefs and practices of the faith by the parents, and the child must be prepared to engage an unbelieving world, by the parents.

I'm terrible at algebra and trig. If God holds me responsible for teaching that to my child, roast me now. lol

If a child IS TAUGHT robotics, the parents are responsible for what the child is taught, especially and specifically any content that affects morals, beliefs, values, behaviors, etc.

I never said a parent is obligated to teach some particular academic subject, or obligated to see to it that any particular academic subject be taught. By "responsible" I mean accountable for what IS taught, whatever it may be.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

If a child IS TAUGHT robotics, the parents are responsible for what the child is taught, especially and specifically any content that affects morals, beliefs, values, behaviors, etc.

I never said a parent is obligated to teach some particular academic subject, or obligated to see to it that any particular academic subject be taught. By "responsible" I mean accountable for what IS taught, whatever it may be.

And so, if a child attends a secular school that teaches evolution (for example), the parent's responsibility is to insure that the child understands that biblical truth and scientific theory do not agree, and to insure that the child is aware of what God's Word states.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

And so, if a child attends a secular school that teaches evolution (for example), the parent's responsibility is to insure that the child understands that biblical truth and scientific theory do not agree, and to insure that the child is aware of what God's Word states.

That's no different than sending a child to a Hindu school and then "explaining afterwards that Hinduism and Biblical truth do not agree." Hardly provides a justification for sending them there in the first place.

Besides, it generally doesn't work anyway. Again, kids do survive playing in the street, but that is no justification for a parent sending their child to go play in the street.