The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save - Page 14

notofworks · #**131** 03-31-2010, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

"crisis experience (with tongues)"? Pretty sure after reading your display of "cutting, mocking and negative" terminology, I wouldn't be open to what you have to present. You are already set at defense. That, of course, makes me not interested. You know how it is.....

.....or not able, whichever.

mfblume · #**132** 03-31-2010, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Baptism in the Spirit, the unique event that is accompanies by some type of supernatural phenom (tongues, prophecy, etc) is distinctly different from the indwelled Spirit and otherwise the Spirit's role in justifying the believer. Nowhere even in Luke do we get anything remotely close to regenerative tongues.

Any time we read of the Spirit indwelling people in regeneration, we either read people were filled with it, or it was poured out upon them, or shed forth, or they were baptized with it. These are synonymous terms, and all refer to the experience when we speak in tongues. Can you show anything different in Acts?

Pressing-On · #**133** 03-31-2010, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

.....or not able, whichever.

Pressing-On · #**134** 03-31-2010, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Any time we read of the Spirit indwelling people in regeneration, we either read people were filled with it, or it was poured out upon them, or shed forth, or they were baptized with it. These are synonymous terms, and all refer to the experience when we speak in tongues. Can you show anything different in Acts?

Thank you, Bro. Blume - as usual!

mfblume · #**135** 03-31-2010, 08:30 AM

I have not read all the posts here in this thread, so I will try to catch up here in the next little while.

mfblume · #**136** 03-31-2010, 08:33 AM

I will say that the idea of the cross alone saving us is not contradicted by the teaching that we must experience Acts 2:38. If we take words about the cross being all that is necessary, implying water baptism and Spirit baptism is not necessary, then that makes it sound like repentance is not necessary either. If it does not imply repentance is not necessary, then why not? Jesus even said unless we repent we shall all perish.

rgcraig · #**137** 03-31-2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I think you are mis-reading his tone.

I agree.

Pressing-On · #**138** 03-31-2010, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I will say that the idea of the cross alone saving us is not contradicted by the teaching that we must experience Acts 2:38. If we take words about the cross being all that is necessary, implying water baptism and Spirit baptism is not necessary, then that makes it sound like repentance is not necessary either. If it does not imply repentance is not necessary, then why not? Jesus even said unless we repent we shall all perish.

Agreed. I hope you have time to read the thread and comment further.

mfblume · #**139** 03-31-2010, 09:07 AM

Before I get the chance to read more of the thread, let me say this. The cross was required for the offering of a sinless sacrifice to atone for sins. Like the high priest offered the sacrifice on the altar, Jesus died on the cross. The high priest took that blood into the most holy place to sprinkle it on the mercyseat of the ark. Then the people were deemed atoned for. Sins were removed, FOR ONE YEAR ALONE. We all know Jesus died ONCE to atone for us forever.

Anyway, my point is that Jesus went to glory and sat on the right hand throne having made atonement. And on the day of Pentecost, when the Spirit was poured out and people spoke in tongues, Peter said the reason it was shed forth, or poured out, was because Jesus made atonement and is at the right hand.

So, the baptism of the Holy Ghost as seen in Acts 2 is the RESULT of the cross! To say we are saved by the cross is to say the RESULTS OF THE CROSS are our salvation. But the results INCLUDE Spirit Baptism!

Saying the cross is all we need in order to imply Spirit Baptism is not necessary, is like saying the Spirit outpouring was not the result of the cross' preparation to cause Christ to provide atonement for us and shed forth the Spirit as a result.

If Christ only DIED, and that was all -- no burial and resurrection -- then there would be no atonement. And saying the cross is all that is needful in the sense that it seems the original poster of the thread implies it, appears to me to be saying there is no burial and resurrection required.

The work of the cross includes the burial and resurrection, as well as the presentation of the blood in the true tabernacle of Heaven itself. And all of that entails his seating on the throne as well as the shedding forth of the river of Life that is the Holy Ghost baptism.

Jesus spoke many times of the Holy Ghost baptism to come due to His ascension to the Father. It is the promise of the Father He noted in Acts 1! It is the power to be witnesses! Luke 24 talks about the same thing. The REAL message of the work of the cross includes the atonement and right hand seating for the purpose of the promise of the Father, Spirit Baptism, being shed forth.

If the work of the cross is understood by all to include the burial and resurrection and atonement, then it is contradictory to say it does not include Spirit baptism, for Spirit baptism with tongues is as much a part of the work of the Cross as is burial and resurrection and right hand seating!

Pressing-On · #**140** 03-31-2010, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Before I get the chance to read more of the thread, let me say this. The cross was required for the offering of a sinless sacrifice to atone for sins. Like the high priest offered the sacrifice on the altar, Jesus died on the cross. The high priest took that blood into the most holy place to sprinkle it on the mercyseat of the ark. Then the people were deemed atoned for. Sins were removed, FOR ONE YEAR ALONE. We all know Jesus died ONCE to atone for us forever.

Anyway, my point is that Jesus went to glory and sat on the right hand throne having made atonement. And on the day of Pentecost, when the Spirit was poured out and people spoke in tongues, Peter said the reason it was shed forth, or poured out, was because Jesus made atonement and is at the right hand.

So, the baptism of the Holy Ghost as seen in Acts 2 is the RESULT of the cross! To say we are saved by the cross is to say the RESULTS OF THE CROSS are our salvation. But the results INCLUDE Spirit Baptism!

Saying the cross is all we need in order to imply Spirit Baptism is not necessary, is like saying the Spirit outpouring was not the result of the cross' preparation to cause Christ to provide atonement for us and shed forth the Spirit as a result.

If Christ only DIED, and that was all -- no burial and resurrection -- then there would be no atonement. And saying the cross is all that is needful in the sense that it seems the original poster of the thread implies it, appears to me to be saying there is no burial and resurrection required.

The work of the cross includes the burial and resurrection, as well as the presentation of the blood in the true tabernacle of Heaven itself. And all of that entails his seating on the throne as well as the shedding forth of the river of Life that is the Holy Ghost baptism.

Jesus spoke many times of the Holy Ghost baptism to come due to His ascension to the Father. It is the promise of the Father He noted in Acts 1! It is the power to be witnesses! Luke 24 talks about the same thing. The REAL message of the work of the cross includes the atonement and right hand seating for the purpose of the promise of the Father, Spirit Baptism, being shed forth.

If the work of the cross is understood by all to include the burial and resurrection and atonement, then it is contradictory to say it does not include Spirit baptism, for Spirit baptism with tongues is as much a part of the work of the Cross as is burial and resurrection and right hand seating!

Excellent, Bro. Blume!!!!