We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Can we know we are going to make it into the Kingdom? Certainly! How?

4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 1 John 4:17

If we are like Jesus we can have boldness in the day of judgment. If we are not like HIM we have no assurance of the Kingdom.

Are you like Him because YOU are exactly like Him in behavior? That means that you have to claim that not only are you now sinless...but also that you have never sinned. Thus being like Jesus is an impossibility. Unless...He imputes His likeness and nature to you by virtue of your faith because He dwells in you and you in Him. Now your nature has changed, you are a new creature. Sure, your behaviors don't always line up with your nature, but you are what you are. For example, when my son was born I didn't hope he'd become a human being. He was a human being by birth. Even when he acts like a little animal, he's a human being. Same with the believer. The believer has been "born again" a new creation. You are a saint, a child of God, a partaker in the divine nature. All the holiness and righteousness of Jesus Christ is imputed to you. You are one with Him. What He is... you are. And what you are... He was upon that cross. Oneness. It's more than a theology... it's the grand revelation of what it means to be a Christian. Sure, your behaviors don't always line up with the nature that dwells in you. But that is why your mind must be renewed through the Word of God. It aligns your soul and your spirit, making you whole in Christ. Your spirit is already regenerated, sanctified, and holy by virtue of His indwelling presence. It's your soul, your mind, that needs to become tuned into this reality by appropriating your idenity in Christ Jesus by faith. When you don't behave like a saint, your walking after the flesh. Appropriate who you are in Christ Jesus by BELIEVING what the Bible says you are. Reshape your mind, your way of thinking, put on the mind of Jesus Christ. Then you'll experience victory. This truth also illustrates why the Bible speaks of us being sanctified in Christ, past tense... and why it also speaks of the process of sanctification, on going. Your spirit is regenerated, sanctified, sealed, delivered. It's your soul, your mind, that needs to be sanctified daily by the Word of God so that you can be 100% who you are in Christ Jesus.

If I live in contual sin... or if I depart from the faith... I was never truly a part of Christ's body. You have reason to question if I ever allowed Christ to fully regenerate me. Because God will always finish what He started.

I cannot glory in anything but the cross. My works are produced out of His abiding presence and my love for Him. They don't earn my salvation at all. In fact... they cannot.

[mfblume]

I think I know part of the reason people reject true and genuine grace without works. They do not believe Jesus actually died AS US, which is what FOR US actually means. God considers US DEAD when Christ died. Just as though we were on that cross ourselves. It would be interesting to see if co-death with Christ is just a pretend story to encourage us in the minds of those who promote works as much as they do, or if they really believe GOD SAW US ON THE CROSS DYING.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Well, according to Luke2447, no one can know they are gonna make it to heaven. If you are sure you are gonna be in the kingdom, then you must be OSAS...go figure!

You'll find that those who believe in legalism always believe that the are perfectly obedient in their form of legalism and will be saved. Their faith is in self. They thank Jesus for the opportunity to earn their salvation. Beyond that, the cross is just something to hang on the wall.

To us... it's EVERYTHING. We realize we can't earn Heaven no matter how hard we try. We don't justify our sin or trust in abiding by denominational "laws" to measure our "progress" towards Heaven. We fall on our knees surrendered, realizing we CAN'T do it. We accept that He secure our salvation and we accept that we must surrender to His work in us. Thus we can be assured of our salvation...because God cannot refuse Himself. And that is what is at work in us.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You'll find that those who believe in legalism always believe that the are perfectly obedient in their form of legalism and will be saved. Their faith is in self. They thank Jesus for the opportunity to earn their salvation. Beyond that, the cross is just something to hang on the wall.

To us... it's EVERYTHING. We realize we can't earn Heaven no matter how hard we try.

Amen. I find it interesting to see the betraying factors that reveal a legalist. For example, the view of how the old testament saints are saved. Did the cross need to occur for them to be saved or not? If the cross is the centre of the spiritual universe as I claim it is, then YES the Old Testament saints would never enjoy glory had not the cross later occurred. So this is a litmus test to present to a person to determine legalism.

The Law was legalism. I am not talking about a distortion of the law as the Pharisees looked at it. I mean the law that God gave to Moses. Paul spoke of the LAW given to Moses that placed one beneath a curse, bar nobody. Gal 3 shows this. And Hebrews taught that the cross actually made redemption for transgressions that were committed under the law by the saints of old who existed under law. THAT MEANS that without the cross, those saints would have never been able to enter glory.

This issue is a litmus tests because it reveals whether or not one views SELF EFFORT as a means to glory aside from the cross, for that is all that Law was before the cross.

As Tom Fudge said in his book, "the fellowship's" articles of faith are void of a single reference to the cross, and that concerns me. No wonder folks do not understand the concept of atonement and co-death with Christ on the cross, and the need for the cross to occur so the old testament saints could enter glory.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The scriptures do not teach this takes years Mike.

6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans 6:1-2

Looks like hes saying its something we can do from the time we believe doesnt it? A new creation can cease from sin. The unsaved will never stop. Those who at least claim salvation yet do not walk by faith in Gods word will always be up and down again. His question is how people who have tasted Gods grace can keep on sinning.

Look who Peter addresses.



2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, all evil speakings,
2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 1 Peter 2:1-2

Newborn babes are expected to lay aside even the "inner sins".

We have set the standard of Christs teaching far to low.

Two things you emphasized. What the believer does and faith in God's Word. You left Christ and the cross out of the picture.

All the believer has to "do"... is rest in Christ. Surrendering in faith to the power of the Holy Ghost. For example, some struggle with condemnation because they've tried to quit smoking and have failed time and time again. Their answer... stop "trying". Surrender yourself COMPLETELY to Him, having FAITH that Christ Himself will change you in response to your prayers of, "Lord change me." Guess what... I know so many who can testify that upon giving up "trying" and praying that prayer, suddenly one day they realized they just didn't want to smoke. When they lit up... it almost turned their stomach. It was God's work in them that delivered them....not their efforts to "obey". Yes, they had a desire to obey... and faith that Jesus would change them by His power. And He did. Was it their "effort" that delivered them? No. It was their FAITH in the power of the indwelling Christ Jesus.

All sin and struggles are resolved this way. How does God spell "relief"? J-e-s-u-s. Just stop trying, rest in His grace, and give it all to Jesus. He never fails. From start to finish, He alone is the author and finisher of our faith.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Hey MTD, are you like Jesus now?
If yes, how do you know?

I suggest the walk on water test. lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Won't you, like, trip over stuff?

YES! And guess what... it's all part of God's plan. God already knows where you'll trip, but He's poised right there to pick you up and ask you,

"What did you learn about life, others, yourself, and more importantly... Me?"

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Annanias and Sephira cut themselves off from Jesus. Also, their withholding illustrates something about their nature. I'm not convinced that they didn't withhold from God at the moment they appeared to repent and were baptized. If they were truly branches of the Vine...Christ's life would be flowing through them. Such would be unthinkable to them.

Jesus himself cuts off the disobedient.

15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:2

13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
Luke 13:6-9

And then to insinuate if they were really his that would be unthinkable? Not to Jesus. He senses changes in mens hearts.

2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Rev. 2:20.

Note that Jesus called these Church members his servants. No they were not just tares. They were backsliding, deceived Christians.

He was very close to releasing his punishment upon them.

2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. Rev. 2:21-23

The latter day Jezebel movement does not ever want HIS SERVANTS to hear teaching like this. They might just repent and get right!

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Jesus himself cuts off the disobedient.

15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:2

13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
Luke 13:6-9

And then to insinuate if they were really his that would be unthinkable? Not to Jesus. He senses changes in mens hearts.

2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Rev. 2:20.

Note that Jesus called these Church members his servants. No they were not just tares. They were backsliding, deceived Christians.

He was very close to releasing his punishment upon them.

2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. Rev. 2:21-23

The latter day Jezebel movement does not ever want HIS SERVANTS to hear teaching like this. They might just repent and get right!

oh it's about rewards.. not eternal salvation... God is only looooove to his kids.

[Michael The Disciple]

Aquila

Two things you emphasized. What the believer does and faith in God's Word. You left Christ and the cross out of the picture.

Well I dont stress that to people who already know it. Thats the basis of this walk. You could say myself and others are "the balance". Todays teaching degrades and negates large portions of truth so we are compelled to step up and remind the interested that there are also other teachings given by the chief Apostle even Yeshua the Messiah.

Aquila
All the believer has to "do"... is rest in Christ.

Well that would make for a Bible that would be one sentence long then!

If you will stop and consider for a minute. Every page of the New Testament contains instructions on things to do or not to do. If they were not necessary Yeshua would not have bothered to teach them.