Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Yes ma'am. And the reason was... to keep the truth hidden from those who only see in part.

We aren't trying to hide the truth from one another here I wouldn't think.

When we use parables most of the time or use them often without scriptural basis then we leave ourselves open to be led astray by the most deceitful thing there is. Our hearts.

Is it possible that some just cannot see/relate to the scriptural basis. I don't
say that to be disrespectful at all. I have seen these things for over fifty yrs.,
over and over and over. I have seen those who believed ALL of the message
of the Apostolic plan of salvation and those who refused part.

Out of the reported, approximate, 1500 that came and heard the same
message that my late grandmother heard in 1926, most refused it. But O,
how thankful I am that she heard more, searched it out, believed the Word
and promptly obeyed it, with her young son, my late father, who was 14 when
he was baptized, 15 when he received the Holy Ghost, 9 months later, speak-
ing with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance. His mother received
it immediately after she repented and was baptized in Jesus Name.

Most of the 1500 spectors remained as they were. I know what it has done
for our family. It has made all the difference. My husband of 51 yrs, and I sit
among five of our six children and their families every week. We still enbrace
what our elders embraced back then. I am speaking of the plan of salvation.
Our other son and his family, attend a neighboring city apostolic church near
their home.
We love the TRUTH that has set us free! HE whom the Son sets free, is FREE
INDEED! Within ourselves, we have absolutely nothing to brag or glory in. But
in the Cross of Jesus Christ, who came that we might have life, and that more
abundantly! I PRAISE HIS NAME! JESUS!

I wasn't born when Grandma and Dad received the New Testament plan of
salvation. but the decision they made, not only changed their lives but made
it easier for the rest of their family, coming behind.

It may not apply to you (and I do love you too!) But there are those who do
understand and relate to these things. I usually hear from them by PM, or
email.

Blessings,
Falla39

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Could it be that there are those who do not recognize stories, analogies and
experiences, that are actually based on scriptural principals. But they don't
recognize points UNLESS they are posted in quotation marks, complete with
where it is found. Then there is the leading of the Spirit!

Jesus had his reasons for used parables, etc. The prophet Nathan used a
story when confronting David of his sin. David got the point! He repented!
He didn't try to argue his way out! David feared God, which is the beginning
of wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

Falla39

We emphasize so much on following the Bible, but we embrace and teach as fact doctrines that are not exactly codified by the Holy scriptures.

[mfblume]

It has to mean something for the Jewish believers to notice that the Gentiles were filled the SAME WAY they were, and tongues were noted. NOTHING ELSE says one way or another about initial evidence. Initial evidence was an issue.

Sorry, brethren. I stick to the idea, myself.

I went around in bouts with good brethren here who claim one receives the Spirit into one's life before Spirit Baptism, and we showed that it cannot be proved that Acts 2 had people get both dual experiences of what they call the Spirit entrance and Spirit baptism. We discussed the issue of the various terms applied to the experience in Acts 2. Infilling, outpouring, baptism, etc. And as much as onesteppers claim there steppers cannot conclusively prove their point, neither can onesteppers.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

We emphasize so much on following the Bible, but we embrace and teach as fact doctrines that are not exactly codified by the Holy scriptures.

The doctrine of Christ is his death, burial and resurrection. Repentance,
baptism in Jesus Name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost (which brings
the power)is the New Testament (New Covenant) plan of salvation.
Jesus was WITH his disciples, telling them he was with them, But would
be IN them. They obeyed the gospel and were empowered to be witnesses,
to be overcomers. Those who are LED by the SPIRIT of GOD, ARE the sons
and daughters of the ALMIGHTY!!!

Falla39

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Could it be that there are those who do not recognize stories, analogies and
experiences, that are actually based on scriptural principals. But they don't
recognize points UNLESS they are posted in quotation marks, complete with
where it is found. Then there is the leading of the Spirit!

Jesus had his reasons for used parables, etc. The prophet Nathan used a
story when confronting David of his sin. David got the point! He repented!
He didn't try to argue his way out! David feared God, which is the beginning
of wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

Falla39

Sis Falla, like D4T said, your a precious lady, a saint of God, and I believe we will be together in heaven, along with many others who have trusted in Christs blood to atone for their sins, who may not agree with either of us.

What really gets me from the UPC crowd, is that as long as we just follow the rank and file like "that ants go marching one by one hurah, hurah" then were considered sensative spiritual saints of God.

But the moment we get on our faces in prayer and study the Word of God and come to a conclusion DIFFERENT than that of a denomination that hasn't even existed for a century, and a salvation doctrine that wasn't even prominent until the 1960's, THEN all of a sudden were not sensative to the Spirit, rebellious, backslid, charismatic, pagan, or whatever.

Why, because we seek a christianity that makes sense with the bible and with what we observe.

When I see people who truly repent of their sins and "seek" for the Holy Ghost and leave the alter with "nothing" and some do this for YEARS, some DIE "seeking", "almost" getting it,and the such like, all the while all of this flies in direct contradiction to what Jesus said in Luke 11, I ain't buy it.

IS GOD A LIAR??????????????

If He said that if our children ask a fish will we give them a serpant?....then how much MORE will your heavenly Father give the Holy Ghost to those who ASK Him.

In the initial evidence doctrine there are THOUSANDS, perhaps MILLIONS who have asked the heavenly Father for the Holy Ghost AND he has given them NOTHING. And don't say they didn't repent, not all did, but pleny have, and even submitted to Jesus name baptism.

The doctrine doesn't make biblical sense, and its about time somebody deals with it honestly, or the older generation can keep their heads in the sand and lose the yonger generation, the latter seems to be the course of action for the UPC.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Exactly.

Theres is alot of stories, analogies, and experiences being shared from those who favor initial evidence doctrine, but little to no scriptural support.

This is a previous post of mine on another thread in this forum. I've tried to show where people received a Holy Ghost Baptism experience in the New Testament and what happened when they did.


--Acts 2:1-4 tongues are mentioned when about 1/4 of the early church (120 out of 500 members ref 1 Corinthians 15:6) were baptized in the Spirit. Some believe this is when those 120 got saved or born again. Others believe they had already been saved or born again as disciples/followers of Jesus and this was an empowering/filling/baptizing experience in the Holy Spirit.

--Acts 8:5-25 winter AD 31/32 Philip went to Samaria and preached Christ. People believed (verse 12) were saved (received the Word verse 14) and were baptized (verses 15-16) but they had not received/been baptized in the Spirit. Peter and John made the the 40 mile trip from Jerusalem and laid their hands on them and ministered the HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism) to them. Verse 17 says they were laying their hands on them and they were receiving (making room for or opening up to) the Holy Spirit. It does not say they spoke with tongues but I think it is implied for two reasons:
1. Simeon saw something happen when they were baptized in the Spirit. He had seen healings, exorcisms, salvations, and great joy but this was something else. It COULD HAVE BEEN speaking with tongues.
2. When Simon tried to buy the gift of ministering the HGB, Peter said "To hell with you and your money. You thought you could buy the gift of God with money. You have no part nor lot in this utterance" (verses 18-21). The KJV says "matter" there but the same word is translated "utterance" in 1 Corinthians 1:5 where it is speaking about the gifts of the Spirit in the Corinthian churc.

--Acts 8:26-40 records the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch and his subsequent water baptism and the Spirit coming upon him. Again, no tongues is mentioned so we can't use this as an argument for or against tongues. You know the story. The eunuch was reading Isaiah chapter 53. Philip preached Christ from that scripture. They came to some water -probably the wadi el-Hesi north of Gaza and the eunuch requested baptism. Philip first wanted to be sure he was saved so he said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." The eunuch made a confession of faith (like Romans 10:9-13) so Philip stopped the chariot so the man could be baptized. Note, that confession of faith is not in some versions of the Bible. Verses 38-40 in some manuscripts read: "So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord fell on the eunuch and the Angel of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. But Philip was found at Azotus. And passing through, he preached in all the cities till he came to Caesarea." Again, nothing proven about whether or not tongues happened.

--Acts 9:1-20 records the conversion of Saul. Traditional date for this is January 25, AD 32. Some of us believe that Saul was converted there on the road to Damascus when he realized Jesus was alive and he called Him Lord and asked what he should do. Three days later Ananias came to him on Straight street so that he could receive his sight and be filled with the Holy Ghost. We read that Ananias laid his hands on him and we assume that is when and where he did receive his sight and receive the Holy Ghost Baptism. Again, no word about tongues although we know that 30 some years later Paul told the Corinthian church that he spoke with tongues more than all of them.

--Acts 10, AD 38, Cornelius and others heard the Word, believed, and the Holy Spirit fell upon them. It is recorded that they spoke with tongues and that is how Peter and the rest of them knew that the Gentiles had been Spirit filled. Later, Peter referred to this tongues speaking experience as a baptism in the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:16-17). Actually, Peter said that these Gentiles had received the same experience he and others had received even though there was no mention of wind or tongues of fire in Acts 10, 11.

--Acts 19:1-7, October AD 53, a group of Baptist disciples who had not heard about the Holy Ghost found out that there was more for them than what they had received. Paul explained what Jesus did, then baptized them in water, and then laid his hands upon them and the Spirit came upon them It is recorded that they spoke with tongues and prophesied. We don't know if all 12 did both --spoke with tongues and prophesied-- or if some spoke with tongues and some prophesied. But speaking with tongues is mentioned.

Agreed, this is not a lot of witnesses but, based on this, some of us have come to the following conclusions:
1. There is a definite experience known as
the Holy Ghost Baptism
receiving the Holy Spirit
the Spirit coming upon
the Spirit falling upon
2. This experience is subsequent to conversion
3. Speaking with tongues accompanies the experience

Others reading the same accounts may not come to the same conclusions. We need to respect one another's beliefs on this. I know good Christian people who do not speak with tongues.

[faithit166]

jfrog have you ever spoken in tongues am just wondering is all

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by faithit166

jfrog have you ever spoken in tongues am just wondering is all

Does it matter?

[faithit166]

god knows the heart,and if they have yet to recieve it maybe god knows something we dont know

[faithit166]

i was just wondering if you had ever experienced speaking in tongues,or are you just speaking things you know not