Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Exactly.

Theres is alot of stories, analogies, and experiences being shared from those who favor initial evidence doctrine, but little to no scriptural support.

Could it be that there are those who do not recognize stories, analogies and
experiences, that are actually based on scriptural principals. But they don't
recognize points UNLESS they are posted in quotation marks, complete with
where it is found. Then there is the leading of the Spirit!

Jesus had his reasons for used parables, etc. The prophet Nathan used a
story when confronting David of his sin. David got the point! He repented!
He didn't try to argue his way out! David feared God, which is the beginning
of wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

Falla39

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Jesus had his reasons for used parables, etc.

Yes ma'am. And the reason was... to keep the truth hidden from those who only see in part.

We aren't trying to hide the truth from one another here I wouldn't think.

When we use parables most of the time or use them often without scriptural basis then we leave ourselves open to be led astray by the most deceitful thing there is. Our hearts.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Could it be that there are those who do not recognize stories, analogies and
experiences, that are actually based on scriptural principals. But they don't
recognize points UNLESS they are posted in quotation marks, complete with
where it is found. Then there is the leading of the Spirit!

Jesus had his reasons for used parables, etc. The prophet Nathan used a
story when confronting David of his sin. David got the point! He repented!
He didn't try to argue his way out! David feared God, which is the beginning
of wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

Falla39

We emphasize so much on following the Bible, but we embrace and teach as fact doctrines that are not exactly codified by the Holy scriptures.

[mfblume]

It has to mean something for the Jewish believers to notice that the Gentiles were filled the SAME WAY they were, and tongues were noted. NOTHING ELSE says one way or another about initial evidence. Initial evidence was an issue.

Sorry, brethren. I stick to the idea, myself.

I went around in bouts with good brethren here who claim one receives the Spirit into one's life before Spirit Baptism, and we showed that it cannot be proved that Acts 2 had people get both dual experiences of what they call the Spirit entrance and Spirit baptism. We discussed the issue of the various terms applied to the experience in Acts 2. Infilling, outpouring, baptism, etc. And as much as onesteppers claim there steppers cannot conclusively prove their point, neither can onesteppers.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It has to mean something for the Jewish believers to notice that the Gentiles were filled the SAME WAY they were, and tongues were noted. NOTHING ELSE says one way or another about initial evidence. Initial evidence was an issue.

Sorry, brethren. I stick to the idea, myself.

Agreed.

In keeping with scripture...

20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe

The three times tongues are mentioned in the Bible were all times where unbelief would be an issue. All three are in keeping with these scriptures.

And... don't get me wrong... as I have stated before I speak in tongues... I want all to speak in tongues. I'm not against tongues. I'm actually for tongues. I am for everyone speaking in tongues.

I just cannot see outside a well honed life long preconception that scripture makes any explicit statement whatsoever that there is never a person saved or filled with the Holy Ghost sans tongues.

You can read it and reason with what you feel is implicit but a doctrine that damns every single person who does not speak in tongues without prejudice with not one explicit scripture is farther than I'm willing to go.

I wish I could find one because my upbringing screams to see them speak in tongues but my allegiance is to what thus sayeth the word of the Lord and not to what implications I might feel the word is making.

If the word of God said even one time that tongues is THE absolute evidence without which all others are hell bound then i wouldn't waver in my support. This thought is not explicitly found in scripture and the three examples of tongues given are all in keeping with scripture given concerning the purpose of tongues.

I welcome anything explicit. I welcome anything other more substantial than... "see they did it there". As a matter of fact I desire it. I hunger for it.

As of yet... I can't find it.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It has to mean something for the Jewish believers to notice that the Gentiles were filled the SAME WAY they were, and tongues were noted. NOTHING ELSE says one way or another about initial evidence. Initial evidence was an issue.

Sorry, brethren. I stick to the idea, myself.

I went around in bouts with good brethren here who claim one receives the Spirit into one's life before Spirit Baptism, and we showed that it cannot be proved that Acts 2 had people get both dual experiences of what they call the Spirit entrance and Spirit baptism. We discussed the issue of the various terms applied to the experience in Acts 2. Infilling, outpouring, baptism, etc. And as much as onesteppers claim three steppers cannot conclusively prove their point, neither can onesteppers.

I would take that further and say that three steppers (although I don't care for that term) have more conclusive, visible evidence than a one-stepper with our eyes closed and hands tied behind our backs. Just sayin'.....

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Yes ma'am. And the reason was... to keep the truth hidden from those who only see in part.

We aren't trying to hide the truth from one another here I wouldn't think.

When we use parables most of the time or use them often without scriptural basis then we leave ourselves open to be led astray by the most deceitful thing there is. Our hearts.

Is it possible that some just cannot see/relate to the scriptural basis. I don't
say that to be disrespectful at all. I have seen these things for over fifty yrs.,
over and over and over. I have seen those who believed ALL of the message
of the Apostolic plan of salvation and those who refused part.

Out of the reported, approximate, 1500 that came and heard the same
message that my late grandmother heard in 1926, most refused it. But O,
how thankful I am that she heard more, searched it out, believed the Word
and promptly obeyed it, with her young son, my late father, who was 14 when
he was baptized, 15 when he received the Holy Ghost, 9 months later, speak-
ing with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance. His mother received
it immediately after she repented and was baptized in Jesus Name.

Most of the 1500 spectors remained as they were. I know what it has done
for our family. It has made all the difference. My husband of 51 yrs, and I sit
among five of our six children and their families every week. We still enbrace
what our elders embraced back then. I am speaking of the plan of salvation.
Our other son and his family, attend a neighboring city apostolic church near
their home.
We love the TRUTH that has set us free! HE whom the Son sets free, is FREE
INDEED! Within ourselves, we have absolutely nothing to brag or glory in. But
in the Cross of Jesus Christ, who came that we might have life, and that more
abundantly! I PRAISE HIS NAME! JESUS!

I wasn't born when Grandma and Dad received the New Testament plan of
salvation. but the decision they made, not only changed their lives but made
it easier for the rest of their family, coming behind.

It may not apply to you (and I do love you too!) But there are those who do
understand and relate to these things. I usually hear from them by PM, or
email.

Blessings,
Falla39

[TGBTG]

Bro Blume (and anyone else), would you mind considering this line of thought
P.S. I don't think it's a matter of who's right, but rather a matter of edifying one another...(We all know in part, btw)

Originally Posted by TGBTG

(From my little understanding of scriptures), I'll love for us take a look at a couple of scriptures and I'll love to see your intake of them..

Here goes.. (For full context, please read entire chapter prayerfully)

Acts 18
23 And when he had landed at Caesarea, and gone up, and saluted the church, he went down to Antioch.

23And after he had spent some time there, he departed, and went over all the country of Galatia and Phrygia in order, strengthening all the disciples (I am of the opinion that disciples here refer to followers of Christ)

We see Paul travelling to places strengthening the disciples. The next time we hear of Paul is in chapter 19

Acts 19
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, (Note that the writer of Acts called these people Paul met disciples, which makes sense since Paul's mission on this journey was to strengthen the disciples.

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost

We know the rest of the story from there...they got rebaptized, hands laid on, and spoke in tongues.

As of the time Paul met these disciples, he figured they had believed on Christ, but perhaps not yet received the HGB. Hence he asked them that question. Now contrast this scenario with

1 John 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God

My line of reasoning here it seems that the HGB from this account was to strenghten those who were christian already...

Pls, let me know your opinion

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

We emphasize so much on following the Bible, but we embrace and teach as fact doctrines that are not exactly codified by the Holy scriptures.

The doctrine of Christ is his death, burial and resurrection. Repentance,
baptism in Jesus Name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost (which brings
the power)is the New Testament (New Covenant) plan of salvation.
Jesus was WITH his disciples, telling them he was with them, But would
be IN them. They obeyed the gospel and were empowered to be witnesses,
to be overcomers. Those who are LED by the SPIRIT of GOD, ARE the sons
and daughters of the ALMIGHTY!!!

Falla39

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I would take that further and say that three steppers (although I don't care for that term) have more conclusive, visible evidence than a one-stepper with our eyes closed and hands tied behind our backs. Just sayin'.....

PO,

What is the third step? I thought it was only Repent and be Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ... As for receivng the HolyGhost, I believe that step can only be carried out by God. Correct me if I'm wrong though..