Oneness Questions - Page 17

Praxeas · #**161** 05-02-2014, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

They might believe that Jesus had God "in" him. However, I see the "in him" as not being like one sits in a car. But rather "in him" means within His very being. They are "one". On an unexplainable spiritual level they are one (in union). Jesus is therefore a man who was one with God from conception. That means that Jesus is truly a man. However, the man Christ Jesus was also God.

Which, if you read what I wrote, I stipulated OR you are a Binitarian. Two Persons who are God

Praxeas · #**162** 05-02-2014, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obriencp

very good discussion points in this thread.

I, too, am a little leary of labels, but I can see how they are used all the time (albiet at times, a little too loosely). When i tell people in my former circle that i don't really believe there is that much of a difference between the trinitarian and the oneness view of the Godhead, they tend to look at me like i'm lost (or easing up in my beliefs). It seems that if you really study the Godhead for yourself and stop viewing the other side through the eyes of what you've been told about it, most of the arguement is over the terminology used.

I do believe that the glorified/resurrected Jesus is God and Lord of all. When we get to heaven, we will see one sitting on the throne as He has been exhaulted, all power is given to him, and He has been made Lord of All. Being that He is the image of the invisible God and we are after the resurrection, Jesus is no longer in the role of the lamb or son and he has now taken on a more accurate image, or representation, of what God is. We cannot see God (spirit), but we can see that symbol, image, representation, of God, Jesus Christ.

I pray to Jesus and use phrases like Jesus, Lord, God, and my Savior. I do not use the term Father, but maybe that's just how I was raised.

carry on...

Note the Labels. Labels are merel titles that describe someone in some way.

Praxeas · #**163** 05-02-2014, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light

Isn't it strange not one person claiming to be oneness will address the above scripture.

You just posted them today and now I don't have time. I'll deal with any verse but Im not going to deal with EVERY verse. People have a tendency to argue by "weariness", where they post verse after verse after verse and demand us Oneness deal with each one and write a page long exegesis of each.

I usually tell them to do it themselves and I'll let them know if agree.

But before I deal with a verse, I need to know what Im supposed to be dealing with or what Im supposed to explain in relation to what I believe. Don't just post a verse and demand explanations. Because My response will simply be "I agree with this verse"

obriencp · #**164** 05-02-2014, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Note the Labels. Labels are merel titles that describe someone in some way.

noted.

Aquila · #**165** 05-02-2014, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Which, if you read what I wrote, I stipulated OR you are a Binitarian. Two Persons who are God

But Unitarians do not believe that Jesus was God. While they accept those who do, most Unitarians believe that Jesus was just a man.

I believe that Jesus was both man and God by virtue of His inseparable union with the Father. Two persons (the man Jesus Christ and God the Father) existing in a mutually coinherent state of being.

Aquila · #**166** 05-02-2014, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Which, if you read what I wrote, I stipulated OR you are a Binitarian. Two Persons who are God

If I'm not mistaken, Binitarians believe in two divine persons. I don't.

Praxeas · #**167** 05-02-2014, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Which, if you read what I wrote, I stipulated OR you are a Binitarian. Two Persons who are God

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

But Unitarians do not believe that Jesus was God. While they accept those who do, most Unitarians believe that Jesus was just a man.

Please read what I said again...notice that word is NOT Unitarian??? Hello???

Praxeas · #**168** 05-02-2014, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

If I'm not mistaken, Binitarians believe in two divine persons. I don't.

Ok so if you don't believe in two Divine Persons, then either both are not God or One is God and the other is a Man and we are back to Unitarianism

Aquila · #**169** 05-02-2014, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Ok so if you don't believe in two Divine Persons, then either both are not God or One is God and the other is a Man and we are back to Unitarianism

Prax, instead of trying to label and define me within the constructs of your presuppositions... why not try to understand what I'm actually saying?

First, let's consider Christ's own description of His Oneness with the Father:

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

John 10:38
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)

There is mutual indwelling, a sharing of essence, being, nature. They (the man and God) are "one". This union allows them to partake and share in one another's nature to the point that one can say that in Jesus, God became a man; or that God was manifest in the flesh of Christ's full humanity. And, by virtue of this union, one can also say that the man, Christ Jesus, is therefore also God. Please note. I don't believe this union began at Christ's baptism (Dynamic Monarchianism). I believe that this union existed from Christ's very conception in the womb of Mary. From conception, this man was also God.

Here's a rather simple diagram to try and help you understand what I'm saying based on what I believe Jesus to be describing in the verses listed above:

Sean · #**170** 05-02-2014, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light

If you are correct the apostle Paul is wrong.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

(The end = Someone is giving a kingdom to someone else.)

1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

(Someone is reigning until death is destroyed. People are still dying naturally and spiritual. DEATH HAS NOT BEEN DESTROYED)

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

(Someone put all things under someone except the one doing the putting.)

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

(Isaiah 9:6 is finely fulfilled when the above happens)

This is not my specialty on this certain passage but David Bernard said the role of the Son has an end in this passage...What say ye?