You're Invited - 80th General Assembly ECOC

[Scott Hutchinson]

Does this group have a web presence ?

[Scott Hutchinson]

I assume this brother is a part of this org.
http://conceptsintheword.com/

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

That is not within the Articles of Faith no.... however, Sanctification prior to Holy Ghost baptism is still preached pretty heavily in some of the churches. The Articles of Faith simply state that we believe Holiness to be God's standard of living for His Church... therefore, you can see there is great liberty (maybe that's good, maybe that's bad) for the individual congregations to take their own interpretations of that doctrine and how it should be preached/lived.

To Brother Epley's earlier comment, yes, Sister Pierce (from all I've learned) did not preach Lifestyle Holiness very much... or not to the degree as other Oneness organizations at that time.

The Emmanuel Churches though are a very, very different animal than they were even in the 80's.... our government, culture, etc. is very different. That is obvious when you look at our churches that are very conservative, and then go down the road and see one that isn't conservative at all... used to, Sister Pierce wanted everybody to look and act just a like... that's not expected in this day.

Also, our government changed a lot. With the bringing in of affiliate churches and not requiring all churches to be owned by the denomination was something she probably would have never, ever, went for.... the orginzation is almost night and day difference than it was in it's beginning... but there again, that can be said of many org's.

I had a preacher friend(who had fallen) that became a member of the group in fact he taught their Bible College for a season. I think he thought he would become chairman(honestly). But in a conversation I had with him concerning this teaching he told me he was trying to change them but it was very indoctrinated in the group. This is the only Oneness bunch I know that teaches sanctification second definte works of grace a fictious experience at best and false doctrine at worse.

[HolyFire]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I had a preacher friend(who had fallen) that became a member of the group in fact he taught their Bible College for a season. I think he thought he would become chairman(honestly). But in a conversation I had with him concerning this teaching he told me he was trying to change them but it was very indoctrinated in the group. This is the only Oneness bunch I know that teaches sanctification second definte works of grace a fictious experience at best and false doctrine at worse.

I equate sanctification as a second work of grace to the light doctrine, something created due to all the changes in early 1900's. Sanctification was equated to Holy Spirit baptism until so many started speaking in tongues around Azusa St.

[RandyWayne]

All I know is that I firmly believe that If I asked God to forgive and save me and IF I died prior to being baptized or speaking in tongues I would see paradise with him.

Simple really.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I assume this brother is a part of this org.
http://conceptsintheword.com/

He is.. he is our General Secretary. Some of our church's have websites, but we are so small, and there honestly is no one to maintain a website for us as all of our pastors are bi vocational. I may at this General Assembly volunteer to try and do something... I'm hoping we can move forward like that.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I had a preacher friend(who had fallen) that became a member of the group in fact he taught their Bible College for a season. I think he thought he would become chairman(honestly). But in a conversation I had with him concerning this teaching he told me he was trying to change them but it was very indoctrinated in the group. This is the only Oneness bunch I know that teaches sanctification second definte works of grace a fictious experience at best and false doctrine at worse.

We do not have a Bible College, never have in the history of the organization. There is another Emmanuel Group as well in this area... and they did at one time have a school. Also, our organization does not have a Chairman. We have a Presiding Bishop/Overseer.

Brother Epley, I respect you... but I'm within the organization, and you are not... therefore as I hold in my hand the official teachings of the organization and our Articles of Faith, I think I know a little better what the org teaches and doesn't. After I state that Sanctification as a second definate work of grace is not one of our Articles of Faith, you then post to the contrary. Again, respectfully, that is just deceitful. There were leaders at one time that held that belief, but it was never an Article of Faith. Therefore, it was not an official teaching of the organization, and therefore you're presenting a false witness of our organizational stance on the doctrine. Surely, you understand the difference between a teaching the organization holds (Articles of Faith, Doctrinal Commitments and Practical Commitments) and just a common belief among a group of it's preachers???? I would think.

Within our organization, what we must all to be a part hold in common is our Articles of Faith, i.e, Acts 2:38 as the Born Again Experience, Holiness as God's standard for living, The Bible is the infallible Word of God, The Oneness of God, etc. However, there are other areas of difference that is well tolerated within the organization and causes no issues.... i.e., women pastors, pre-millenial, post millenial, a-millenial, sanctification as a second work of grace, lifestyle holiness standards.....

So again, for you to present "sanctification as a second definate work of grace" as one of our "organizational teachings" is a false hood..... as it is not part of our Articles of Faith, Doctrinal Commitments, or Practical Commitments.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

We do not have a Bible College, never have in the history of the organization. There is another Emmanuel Group as well in this area... and they did at one time have a school. Also, our organization does not have a Chairman. We have a Presiding Bishop/Overseer.

Brother Epley, I respect you... but I'm within the organization, and you are not... therefore as I hold in my hand the official teachings of the organization and our Articles of Faith, I think I know a little better what the org teaches and doesn't. After I state that Sanctification as a second definate work of grace is not one of our Articles of Faith, you then post to the contrary. Again, respectfully, that is just deceitful. There were leaders at one time that held that belief, but it was never an Article of Faith. Therefore, it was not an official teaching of the organization, and therefore you're presenting a false witness of our organizational stance on the doctrine. Surely, you understand the difference between a teaching the organization holds (Articles of Faith, Doctrinal Commitments and Practical Commitments) and just a common belief among a group of it's preachers???? I would think.

Within our organization, what we must all to be a part hold in common is our Articles of Faith, i.e, Acts 2:38 as the Born Again Experience, Holiness as God's standard for living, The Bible is the infallible Word of God, The Oneness of God, etc. However, there are other areas of difference that is well tolerated within the organization and causes no issues.... i.e., women pastors, pre-millenial, post millenial, a-millenial, sanctification as a second work of grace, lifestyle holiness standards.....

So again, for you to present "sanctification as a second definate work of grace" as one of our "organizational teachings" is a false hood..... as it is not part of our Articles of Faith, Doctrinal Commitments, or Practical Commitments.

Great response, but Epley has never allowed himself to be confused by the facts!

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

We do not have a Bible College, never have in the history of the organization. There is another Emmanuel Group as well in this area... and they did at one time have a school. Also, our organization does not have a Chairman. We have a Presiding Bishop/Overseer.

Brother Epley, I respect you... but I'm within the organization, and you are not... therefore as I hold in my hand the official teachings of the organization and our Articles of Faith, I think I know a little better what the org teaches and doesn't. After I state that Sanctification as a second definate work of grace is not one of our Articles of Faith, you then post to the contrary. Again, respectfully, that is just deceitful. There were leaders at one time that held that belief, but it was never an Article of Faith. Therefore, it was not an official teaching of the organization, and therefore you're presenting a false witness of our organizational stance on the doctrine. Surely, you understand the difference between a teaching the organization holds (Articles of Faith, Doctrinal Commitments and Practical Commitments) and just a common belief among a group of it's preachers???? I would think.

Within our organization, what we must all to be a part hold in common is our Articles of Faith, i.e, Acts 2:38 as the Born Again Experience, Holiness as God's standard for living, The Bible is the infallible Word of God, The Oneness of God, etc. However, there are other areas of difference that is well tolerated within the organization and causes no issues.... i.e., women pastors, pre-millenial, post millenial, a-millenial, sanctification as a second work of grace, lifestyle holiness standards.....

So again, for you to present "sanctification as a second definate work of grace" as one of our "organizational teachings" is a false hood..... as it is not part of our Articles of Faith, Doctrinal Commitments, or Practical Commitments.

MY friend I was not condradicting you and just saying what I knew from their history they definitely taught sanctification was the second definite work of grace whether it is in the bylaws or not. Ms. Pierce taught it and thise preachers I met years ago. I asked the question if they still did?
Jerry Hayes was over the Bible School at Huntsville, Al. this was better than 20 years ago. I met several of those preachers better than 40 years ago(how old are you?) and yes it was clearly taught among them. Since it is such an oddity among Oneness folks it stood out like poop in a punch bowl. You are new to the group and it is possible they no longer teach it. If I have offended you it was not intentional I apologize. Several years ago I had a home mission work between Lebanon and Murfreesboro and some of their saints visited us on ocassion and in their testimonies they testified about their sanctification experience I explained the way more perfectly to them and they did not return.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Great response, but Epley has never allowed himself to be confused by the facts!

Bro. Phelps I asked him early on is they still taught this? I KNOW they did at one time I knew Ms. Painted face Pierce and some of her minions and yes they taught sanctification second definite works I wasn't talking to a book but to them. Those are the facts. My friend here is new in the group and the group may no longer teach this false doctrine they taught for decades. Good.