Being in the form of God, thought it not robbery

[Esaias]

1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1. The first couple verses establish the context - the attitude that Christians are to have. Paul wants the brethren to have the same attitude, an attitude that rejects "vainglory" and self-seeking. Instead, they are to have an attitude of humility and service, esteeming each other better than themselves, concerned for the well-being of others, etc.

2. They are to have the same attitude that Christ had. Christ did not seek His own personal benefit, but was a Servant not only of God but to all of us, acting on our behalf rather than on His own.

3. Adam was made a little lower than the angels. But Adam grasped at the supposed chance to be a god, to be equal with God. He grasped at god-like knowledge, attempting to steal his way to divinity. But instead he was expelled from the Garden and became subject to death, cut off from immortality. Adam, though made in the image and likeness of God, was not content with his assigned lot, but grasped at deification by illegitimate means. And the result was death and dishonour.

4. Christ, likewise in the form of God, did not think of being like God as something that had to be stolen, or as something to be obtained by illegitimate means. Rather, He voluntarily submitted to humility, ministered as a servant, and submitted even to death. In return, He was exalted, made immortal, and given a name equivalent to God. He was placed on an equal footing with God as a result of His exaltation, which in turn was due to Him willingly being a servant subject to death.

In other words, Adam and Christ were both "in the form or likeness of God". Both were assigned a human, subangelic existence. But Adam tried to grab hold of divinity, seeking what was thought to be to his advantage, and by this rebellion fell into dishonour and death.

Christ, however, did what Adam should have done - submitted Himself to the will of God. In fact, Christ voluntarily submitted Himself to servanthood, and even death (Adam's punishment). And the result was His exaltation and glorification and immortality. Christ re-enacted, in a sense, the story of Adam, but reversed the outcome by reversing the "choice" Adam made.

This demonstrated Christ's attitude, as one of selfless devotion to God and neighbor, as opposed to Adam's attempt to satisfy his own personal desires. Just as Christ's attitude led to glorification, so it is with us: God will honour those who humble themselves, those who follow Christ's example will be glorified with Him. Whereas the other way, the way of the self directed and self pleasing Adam, only leads to humiliation and failure. Those who follow Adam's example will suffer Adam's fate - death and indignity.

This passage is thus showing how Christ functions as the Second Adam, reversing Adam's Fall and its consequences of death and condemnation. This "Adam Christology" is further elaborated on in Romans 5:12-21, 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 and 45-49.

There are several Christologies in the NT, and Christ as Second Adam is one of them. The others are Christ as Wisdom, Christ as Son of Man, Christ as Son of God, Christ as Spirit, Christ as Melchizedek Priest, Christ as Word/Logos, Christ as Son of David, Christ as Passover, Christ as Atonement, Christ as Immanuel, and several others.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1. The first couple verses establish the context - the attitude that Christians are to have. Paul wants the brethren to have the same attitude, an attitude that rejects "vainglory" and self-seeking. Instead, they are to have an attitude of humility and service, esteeming each other better than themselves, concerned for the well-being of others, etc.

2. They are to have the same attitude that Christ had. Christ did not seek His own personal benefit, but was a Servant not only of God but to all of us, acting on our behalf rather than on His own.

3. Adam was made a little lower than the angels. But Adam grasped at the supposed chance to be a god, to be equal with God. He grasped at god-like knowledge, attempting to steal his way to divinity. But instead he was expelled from the Garden and became subject to death, cut off from immortality. Adam, though made in the image and likeness of God, was not content with his assigned lot, but grasped at deification by illegitimate means. And the result was death and dishonour.

4. Christ, likewise in the form of God, did not think of being like God as something that had to be stolen, or as something to be obtained by illegitimate means. Rather, He voluntarily submitted to humility, ministered as a servant, and submitted even to death. In return, He was exalted, made immortal, and given a name equivalent to God. He was placed on an equal footing with God as a result of His exaltation, which in turn was due to Him willingly being a servant subject to death.

In other words, Adam and Christ were both "in the form or likeness of God". Both were assigned a human, subangelic existence. But Adam tried to grab hold of divinity, seeking what was thought to be to his advantage, and by this rebellion fell into dishonour and death.

Christ, however, did what Adam should have done - submitted Himself to the will of God. In fact, Christ voluntarily submitted Himself to servanthood, and even death (Adam's punishment). And the result was His exaltation and glorification and immortality. Christ re-enacted, in a sense, the story of Adam, but reversed the outcome by reversing the "choice" Adam made.

This demonstrated Christ's attitude, as one of selfless devotion to God and neighbor, as opposed to Adam's attempt to satisfy his own personal desires. Just as Christ's attitude led to glorification, so it is with us: God will honour those who humble themselves, those who follow Christ's example will be glorified with Him. Whereas the other way, the way of the self directed and self pleasing Adam, only leads to humiliation and failure. Those who follow Adam's example will suffer Adam's fate - death and indignity.

This passage is thus showing how Christ functions as the Second Adam, reversing Adam's Fall and its consequences of death and condemnation. This "Adam Christology" is further elaborated on in Romans 5:12-21, 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 and 45-49.

There are several Christologies in the NT, and Christ as Second Adam is one of them. The others are Christ as Wisdom, Christ as Son of Man, Christ as Son of God, Christ as Spirit, Christ as Melchizedek Priest, Christ as Word/Logos, Christ as Son of David, Christ as Passover, Christ as Atonement, Christ as Immanuel, and several others.

When viewed this way, the traditional trinitarian interpretation of this verse as describing a pre-incarnate Christ putting aside His divine glory to become a human being, with all the problems attendant on such as interpretation, goes away. This passage then is understood to be speaking NOT about a pre-incarnate divine being existing in the form of God, becoming human. But rather, it is seen to be speaking of how Christ (a man and thus already incarnate) recognized that equality with God was not something to be obtained illegitimately (contrary to Adam's attempt). He had a different attitude, one of humility and service, rather than one of self seeking.

And that is, in fact, Paul's entire point: that we should think and act likewise.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Esaias

1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1. The first couple verses establish the context - the attitude that Christians are to have. Paul wants the brethren to have the same attitude, an attitude that rejects "vainglory" and self-seeking. Instead, they are to have an attitude of humility and service, esteeming each other better than themselves, concerned for the well-being of others, etc.

2. They are to have the same attitude that Christ had. Christ did not seek His own personal benefit, but was a Servant not only of God but to all of us, acting on our behalf rather than on His own.

3. Adam was made a little lower than the angels. But Adam grasped at the supposed chance to be a god, to be equal with God. He grasped at god-like knowledge, attempting to steal his way to divinity. But instead he was expelled from the Garden and became subject to death, cut off from immortality. Adam, though made in the image and likeness of God, was not content with his assigned lot, but grasped at deification by illegitimate means. And the result was death and dishonour.

4. Christ, likewise in the form of God, did not think of being like God as something that had to be stolen, or as something to be obtained by illegitimate means. Rather, He voluntarily submitted to humility, ministered as a servant, and submitted even to death. In return, He was exalted, made immortal, and given a name equivalent to God. He was placed on an equal footing with God as a result of His exaltation, which in turn was due to Him willingly being a servant subject to death.

In other words, Adam and Christ were both "in the form or likeness of God". Both were assigned a human, subangelic existence. But Adam tried to grab hold of divinity, seeking what was thought to be to his advantage, and by this rebellion fell into dishonour and death.

Christ, however, did what Adam should have done - submitted Himself to the will of God. In fact, Christ voluntarily submitted Himself to servanthood, and even death (Adam's punishment). And the result was His exaltation and glorification and immortality. Christ re-enacted, in a sense, the story of Adam, but reversed the outcome by reversing the "choice" Adam made.

This demonstrated Christ's attitude, as one of selfless devotion to God and neighbor, as opposed to Adam's attempt to satisfy his own personal desires. Just as Christ's attitude led to glorification, so it is with us: God will honour those who humble themselves, those who follow Christ's example will be glorified with Him. Whereas the other way, the way of the self directed and self pleasing Adam, only leads to humiliation and failure. Those who follow Adam's example will suffer Adam's fate - death and indignity.

This passage is thus showing how Christ functions as the Second Adam, reversing Adam's Fall and its consequences of death and condemnation. This "Adam Christology" is further elaborated on in Romans 5:12-21, 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 and 45-49.

There are several Christologies in the NT, and Christ as Second Adam is one of them. The others are Christ as Wisdom, Christ as Son of Man, Christ as Son of God, Christ as Spirit, Christ as Melchizedek Priest, Christ as Word/Logos, Christ as Son of David, Christ as Passover, Christ as Atonement, Christ as Immanuel, and several others.

thank you Elder, this is awesome teaching.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Esaias

When viewed this way, the traditional trinitarian interpretation of this verse as describing a pre-incarnate Christ putting aside His divine glory to become a human being, with all the problems attendant on such as interpretation, goes away. This passage then is understood to be speaking NOT about a pre-incarnate divine being existing in the form of God, becoming human. But rather, it is seen to be speaking of how Christ (a man and thus already incarnate) recognized that equality with God was not something to be obtained illegitimately (contrary to Adam's attempt). He had a different attitude, one of humility and service, rather than one of self seeking.

And that is, in fact, Paul's entire point: that we should think and act likewise.

To me, your explanation sounds more like Arianism.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

To me, your explanation sounds more like Arianism.

Both trinitarianism and Arianism postulate Christ was a preincarnate being existing in a divine "form of God" who then emptied himself of visible divine glory and power in order to become human.

My explanation is actually the most thoroughly Oneness explanation, because it understands Christ AS ALREADY INCARNATE. Christ is, after all, a human. The term Christ is a reference to the descendant of David, and therefore the term presupposes human existence and nature. It MAKES NO THEOLOGICAL SENSE to speak of Christ pre existing the Incarnation then becoming human.

My understanding and explanation of the passage keeps it in context - the attitude held by the MAN from Galilee who was exalted upon His resurrection and ascension. THAT is Bible doctrine.

So no, my explanation is as far from Arianism as it is from trinitarianism.

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Originally Posted by Esaias

Both trinitarianism and Arianism postulate Christ was a preincarnate being existing in a divine "form of God"
who then emptied himself of visible divine glory and power in order to become human.
My explanation is actually the (1)most thoroughly Oneness explanation, because it understands Christ (2)AS ALREADY
INCARNATE. Christ is, after all, a human. The term Christ is a reference to the descendant of David, and therefore
the term presupposes human existence and nature. It MAKES NO THEOLOGICAL SENSE to speak of Christ pre-
existing the Incarnation then becoming human.
My understanding and explanation of the passage keeps it in context - the attitude held by the MAN from Galilee who
was exalted upon His resurrection and ascension. (3)THAT is Bible doctrine.
So no, my explanation is as far from Arianism as it is from trinitarianism.

(1) "most thoroughly oneness" as opposed to trinitarianism and arianism;
(2) please explain the term "already incarnate";
(3) is your explanation "Bible doctrine, or is the "resurrection and ascension"?

Thank you.

Brother Villa

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

His NAME is Jesus!



(1) "most thoroughly oneness" as opposed to trinitarianism and arianism;
(2) please explain the term "already incarnate";
(3) is your explanation "Bible doctrine, or is the "resurrection and ascension"?

Thank you.

Brother Villa

Christ is a term relating to the incarnation. Christ Jesus refers to the Man from Galilee. Humans don't incarnate, they are by definition "incarnate". Incarnation means enfleshment. A human is not pre existing as a non flesh person who then becomes flesh. When Christ was conceived and born it was not a man who was enfleshed but the Logos that was enfleshed. To be enfleshed means to become human. Humans don't become human, they already are. Rather, the Word which was God became flesh (human).

Philippians 2 is not talking about a non human person becoming human, but about a man (Christ Jesus) refusing to grasp at god-like status and choosing instead to humble Himself even to death, and then being exalted to a position above all. The man is now recognized as Jehovah Himself to Whom every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.

Bible doctrine is that the man has been elevated to the highest position by virtue of His resurrection and ascension.

If we understand Philippians 2 to be speaking of Christ laying aside glory in order to BECOME HUMAN we have problems. How does Christ exist in THE FORM OF GOD in a preincarnate state? How is that not two divine persons existing prior to Bethlehem?

If Paul is speaking of a preincarnate being becoming human, then verse 5 should say let this mind be in you which was also in GOD, etc.

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Originally Posted by Esaias

Christ is a term relating to the incarnation. Christ Jesus refers to the Man from Galilee. Humans don't incarnate,
they are by definition "incarnate". Incarnation means enfleshment. (1)A human is not pre existing as a non flesh
person who then becomes flesh. When Christ was conceived and born it was not a man who was enfleshed but
the Logos that was enfleshed. To be enfleshed means 2to become human. Humans don't become human, they
already are. Rather, the Word which was God 3-?became flesh (human).
Philippians 2 is not talking about a non human person becoming human, but about 4-??a man (Christ Jesus) refusing to
grasp at god-like status and choosing instead to humble Himself even to death, and then being exalted to a
position above all. The man is now recognized as Jehovah Himself to Whom 5every knee will bow and every tongue
will confess.
Bible doctrine is that the man has been elevated to the highest position by virtue of His resurrection and ascension.
If we understand Philippians 2 to be speaking of 6Christ laying aside glory in order to BECOME HUMAN we have problems.
How does Christ exist in THE FORM OF GOD in a preincarnate state? How is that not two divine persons existing
prior to Bethlehem?
If Paul is speaking of a preincarnate being becoming human, then verse 5 should say let this mind be in you which
was also in GOD, etc.

(1)Correct: man did not pre-exist prior to his creation, but was FORMED
“…from the dust of the ground…”
(2)you seem to be saying that the Spirit was transformed (somehow)
into flesh: I submit that the Spirit (God’s spoken word) was dressed upon
(robed) in flesh;
(3-?)This is closer to what I have always submitted;
(4-??)Now this: “…a body hast thou prepared me…”: a habitation for the
SPOKEN word of God.
(5)Will everyone bow before the man, Christ Jesus, or at the NAME of Jesus?
(6)there was no “Christ” in Eternity: but “…the man Christ Jesus…” was
anointed to be the body prepared for the Word!
(7)No mention of a "pre-existing Christ" in my posts.

Brother Villa

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Esaias

1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1. The first couple verses establish the context - the attitude that Christians are to have. Paul wants the brethren to have the same attitude, an attitude that rejects "vainglory" and self-seeking. Instead, they are to have an attitude of humility and service, esteeming each other better than themselves, concerned for the well-being of others, etc.

2. They are to have the same attitude that Christ had. Christ did not seek His own personal benefit, but was a Servant not only of God but to all of us, acting on our behalf rather than on His own.

3. Adam was made a little lower than the angels. But Adam grasped at the supposed chance to be a god, to be equal with God. He grasped at god-like knowledge, attempting to steal his way to divinity. But instead he was expelled from the Garden and became subject to death, cut off from immortality. Adam, though made in the image and likeness of God, was not content with his assigned lot, but grasped at deification by illegitimate means. And the result was death and dishonour.

4. Christ, likewise in the form of God, did not think of being like God as something that had to be stolen, or as something to be obtained by illegitimate means. Rather, He voluntarily submitted to humility, ministered as a servant, and submitted even to death. In return, He was exalted, made immortal, and given a name equivalent to God. He was placed on an equal footing with God as a result of His exaltation, which in turn was due to Him willingly being a servant subject to death.

In other words, Adam and Christ were both "in the form or likeness of God". Both were assigned a human, subangelic existence. But Adam tried to grab hold of divinity, seeking what was thought to be to his advantage, and by this rebellion fell into dishonour and death.

Christ, however, did what Adam should have done - submitted Himself to the will of God. In fact, Christ voluntarily submitted Himself to servanthood, and even death (Adam's punishment). And the result was His exaltation and glorification and immortality. Christ re-enacted, in a sense, the story of Adam, but reversed the outcome by reversing the "choice" Adam made.

This demonstrated Christ's attitude, as one of selfless devotion to God and neighbor, as opposed to Adam's attempt to satisfy his own personal desires. Just as Christ's attitude led to glorification, so it is with us: God will honour those who humble themselves, those who follow Christ's example will be glorified with Him. Whereas the other way, the way of the self directed and self pleasing Adam, only leads to humiliation and failure. Those who follow Adam's example will suffer Adam's fate - death and indignity.

This passage is thus showing how Christ functions as the Second Adam, reversing Adam's Fall and its consequences of death and condemnation. This "Adam Christology" is further elaborated on in Romans 5:12-21, 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 and 45-49.

There are several Christologies in the NT, and Christ as Second Adam is one of them. The others are Christ as Wisdom, Christ as Son of Man, Christ as Son of God, Christ as Spirit, Christ as Melchizedek Priest, Christ as Word/Logos, Christ as Son of David, Christ as Passover, Christ as Atonement, Christ as Immanuel, and several others.

Good post!

Now we need a separate thread for each of the subjects in bold.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Good post!

Now we need a separate thread for each of the subjects in bold.

Do it sis.