End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

" When we look up the word "man" we find that it is Strong's number 435, this use of man means "husband. "Now if we insert the correct use of the word woman and man the passage now reads as follows: "Let the wife learn in silence with all subjection, But I suffer not a wife to teach, nor to usurp authority over the husband, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the wife being deceived in the transgression. "We must be careful to make sure the translation that we read is what is really being said.

Again, entirely wrong. The Greek noun for "man" (ἀνδρός) simply means "male," as indicated here in the actual lexical definition: http://biblehub.com/greek/435.htm


This is why this noun is translated most often as simply "man" & rarely ever "husband" (& even then only when sufficient textual indicators are present - which they are not in I Tim. 2). This noun is translated as "husband" a mere 52 times (& only because of possessive markings), & as simply "man" (or variables thereof) 158 times.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Surely Paul could have used more overt words than “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.” And of course there is the issue of the Scriptural fact that women in the past, and even in Paul’s day, did indeed teach and have authority over or with men (e.g., the prophetess Deborah in Judges 4, Aquila and Pricilla in Acts 18:26). Paul certainly knew of Deborah and others, so it seems strange that he should contradict prior revelation. The main point here is that there might be a level of eisegesis (reading into the text) going on when interpreters come to conclusions that are not clearly stated in the text.

Exactly....Such as a "wife not instructing her husband in the home" - which is "stated in this text" precisely where:___________?


Deborah, Huldah, Anna, Phoebe, Phillip's daughters - nor ANY OTHER woman in the Bible "preached" to men from the Scriptures. Won't EVER find that "clearly stated in the text" (despite the continued copy-paste jobs - that I told you would be forthcoming !).

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

1 Timothy 2:11,12, as they quote George Williams:..A married woman (v. 12) was not to teach or to claim authority over her husband but to be in subordination. Many misunderstand this command; they divorce it from its context, which is the family, and they carry it into the prayer-meeting [dealt with in vv. 1-10], and argue that a woman is forbidden to preach or pray—she is not to teach men—not even her dying husband how to escape from the wrath to come! This is a popular error. What God says here is that a wife is not to govern her husband.

Hmmm, I suppose hundreds upon hundreds of professional allllll independently misread the text .

And, here is the "context": 14 I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these things to you so that, 15 if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God.


Sorry, the "stated context" was not "home-order," but rather church order - as is "clearly stated in the text" .

[Dordrecht]

[rdp]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

RDP, I posted the entire context of the verse above, and you have ignored the obvious that Paul was talking about with all your micro-context/macro-context objections. Paul WAS talking about lazy busybodies, and to have no fellowship with those who were not working as a lifestyle of walking, or living.

You are choosing to ignore the obvious, and to play incorrect exegesis with this scripture, to torment folks who don't agree with you, when Paul was dealing with laziness and busybodies, and those who weren't working, and the premise for this scripture that you are waving around is pulled out of context.


Ummm, apparently you missed the actual lexical data that I posted regarding this Greek verb? Did you not even read the actual definition of this term - or did you again choose to "ignore" parts of the text (then charge me with the very thing you're doing - again?) .


Paul is laying down a principle of inference (ever heard of that?) & in absolutely no way restricting the passage to lazy folks. It is you who is not practicing a macro-exegesis....a sign of poor scholarship.






The bold makes PERFECT sense

And "the bold" is completely-textually false .

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I KNOW BY HEART ALL OF RDP'S POSITIONS AND HIS QUESTIONS...HOWEVER HE CANNOT ANSWER WHY THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT PROPHECY IS THE GIFT WE SHOULD DESIRE MOST...THE GIFT TO BE USED IN THE CHURCH....WHERE MAN AND WOMEN ARE PRESENT AND PROPHECY IS “edification, exhortation and comfort.” TO WHO? TO THE CHURCH BODY..."On the simplest level, a prophet is one who speaks words from God that build people up: He that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort." —1 Corinthians 14:3...he word edify is related to the word edifice, which is another word for “a building.” The church is God’s building. His building (His edifice) is built up through prophecy.

How do prophetic words build up the church? By bringing exhortation and comfort to the individual people who make up the church.

Exhortation is the Greek word paraklesis, which means "solace, entreaty, consolation, admonition or comfort.

A WOMAN PROPHET...PROPHETESS....IS CALLED TO DO THE SAME THING A MAN PROPHET DOES FOR THE GIFT IS THE SAME...THE REASON FOR THE GIFT IS THE SAME AND THE PURPOSE OF THE GIFT IS THE SAME....TO EDIFY...TO EXHORT AND TO CONFORT THE CHURCH...

Likewise, I know your arguments before you copy-paste them & can tell you what you're going to say before you say it (Have heard it for eons now & it's false).


Here, the answer is simple (I've done much-o research into I Cor. 12-14 over the years): Prophecy is the most desirable gift becasue it is understood in the church in opposition to tongues without an interpretation.


Do you think this somehow invalidates Paul's clear teachings in Chp. 14.34 or I Timothy 2.11-3.15? Are you thinking this somehow allows for "women-preachers" in the set-in office of the 5-fold ministry? Would love to know how or why FROM THE BIBLE ITSELF ??

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

INTERESTING IS JUDIASM 101...

A prophet is basically a spokesman for G-d, a person chosen by G-d to speak to people on G-d's behalf and convey a message or teaching. Prophets were role models of holiness, scholarship and closeness to G-d. They set the standards for the entire community.

The Hebrew word for a prophet, navi (Nun-Beit-Yod-Alef) comes from the term niv sefatayim meaning "fruit of the lips," which emphasizes the prophet's role as a speaker.

The Talmud teaches that there were hundreds of thousands of prophets: twice as many as the number of people who left Egypt, which was 600,000. But most of the prophets conveyed messages that were intended solely for their own generation and were not reported in scripture. Scripture identifies only 55 prophets of Israel.

A prophet is not necessarily a man. Scripture records the stories of seven female prophets, listed below, and the Talmud reports that Sarah's prophetic ability was superior to Abraham's.

A prophet is not necessarily a Jew. The Talmud reports that there were prophets among the gentiles (most notably Balaam, whose story is told in Numbers 22), although they were not as elevated as the prophets of Israel (as the story of Balaam demonstrates). And some of the prophets, such as Jonah, were sent on missions to speak to the gentiles.

According to some views, prophecy is not a gift that is arbitrarily conferred upon people; rather, it is the culmination of a person's spiritual and ethical development. When a person reaches a sufficient level of spiritual and ethical achievement, the Shechinah (Divine Spirit) comes to rest upon him or her. Likewise, the gift of prophecy leaves the person if that person lapses from his or her spiritual and ethical perfection.

The greatest of the prophets was Moses. It is said that Moses saw all that all of the other prophets combined saw, and more. Moses saw the whole of the Torah, including the Prophets and the Writings that were written hundreds of years later. All subsequent prophecy was merely an expression of what Moses had already seen. Thus, it is taught that nothing in the Prophets or the Writings can be in conflict with Moses' writings, because Moses saw it all in advance.

The Talmud states that the writings of the prophets will not be necessary in the World to Come, because in that day, all people will be mentally, spiritually and ethically perfect, and all will have the gift of prophecy.

OF course I do not agrewe with everything but it is interesting that even Judaism tells us a prophet was a spokeman for God then turns around and says there were women prophets...

In other words women that spoke in the place of God...yes, dear ones wise people heard and obeyed what women prophets said....

And, specifically which of the "women prophets" (not sure how that works ?) exhorted from the Scriptures to a congregation:____________? Been waiting on that blank to be filled out for many-many years now !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

" So it is very clear and plain that preaching God's message is what prophets do and that a prophet is just a preacher in the true sense. So then we see that a prophet, both in the Old Testament and the New Testament, is a person that is called by God to declare His mind to the people

Here we meet in agreement .


Yes, women can indeed declare God's Mind in prophetical genre, but biblical prophesy has never been a sermon from the Scriptures, but rather a spontaneous & lofty breaking-forth in primarily foretelling God's intents in a persons life.


In this strict sense we can say that women can "preach" per-se, but not in the sense of taking a text & expositing to men (or spittin' & sputterin' like a wild-comanche {SP?}). When said women does this she is outside of her God-allotted position & so is the pastor who allows her to do so - hence, "Call me gone" .

[rdp]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

So, the answer to the question I have repeatedly asked RDP, how can a woman prophesy, and yet still have to remain silent in church (according to his interpretation of that verse)?

He had no answer, but lots of "smoke and mirrors" to quote his own words.

The answer remains to be this: A wife can be in submission to her husband's authority at home, and still prophesy, according to I Cor. 11, and not have to remain silent, when the Lord wished to speak to the church through her.

A woman can preach the gospel of Jesus, and still be submitted to her husband.

She can be an evangelist sharing the gospel of Jesus, while remaining in submission to her husband.

Granted there are those women who take liberties with this... but many, many great woman have been called of God, have remained surrendered, and submitted wives to their husbands, while preaching the great commission, the gospel of Jesus Christ to the lost.

There are those who, like our dear friend RDP, do not see this simple truth.

The fact remains, though that the gospel is being shared around the world by those who have been called by God to do so.

- So silly - RDP has answered your question over-over-over-over-over-over-over - & over .


And, of course women should go win the lost, but no women should be alone with another man in doing so. Rather the biblical example is for a Aquila & Priscilla to reach for a Apollos - which is NOT the context of I Tim. 2 nor I Cor. 14. You are meshing contexts (a sure sign of poor hermeneutic skills) & committing the logical fallacy known as a "Illegitimate Totality Transfer," in which you illegitimately transfer one meaning or context onto another meaning or context that are discussing two entirely separate topics.


We have explained this over & over & over & over .

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

We have seen many examples where God not only made provision in both the Old Testament and the New Testament to use women in the ministry as prophets or preachers, but He also did use them in a very eminent manner to His glory and to the salvation of souls. Consistency demands that all scriptures be interpreted in such a way that this fact be recognized.

No M'aam, we have "seen" no such thing - in fact, we've "seen" just the opposite .


Still waiting on someone to demonstrate from the biblical text where any woman exposited from the Scriptures to a congregation:___________?


God's word clearly militates against "women preachers" in the church - they will have to give an account of their rebellion & defiance to His word some day. Honestly hope & pray they find a place of repentance.