You haven't answered my question is the person of the son distinct from the Holy Spirit? I say no. I believe the Holy Spirit is the person of the son.
You didn't ask "is the person of the son distinct from the Holy Spirit", but my answer is they are the same person. By "person" see earlier post where I quote Jason Dulle
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I believe the Holy Spirit is both the human nature of Christ and the divine nature of God in one.
That is a contradiction. I asked you some questions earlier but you never responded, so Im going to add another and hope you answer this one along with others. Define "nature"
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If the son were the color red(body) and the Father were the color blue(spirit), the holy spirit would be the color purple(soul), the essence of both the body and the spirit.
As I said eariler, the Son is not a body. The Son is a person WITH a body and a human nature.Also your analogy, If I am understanding it, combines the human nature with the divine nature to form a new nature. That is called Monophysite. The Divine flesh advocates have a similiar view
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I believe the soul is the identity of the body in the realm of the spirit, including mind, heart, emotion, conscience and will.
So you think a body has a mind, heart, emotion, conscience and will?
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The Father and the Holy Spirit are distinct. The Holy Spirit is the presence of Jesus in a particular place, while the Father is the omnipresent spirit of the Father.
Is the Holy Spirit "Spirit"? Is the Father "Spirit"?
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Jesus was 100% human with the fulness of God dwelling in him. He is much more than human spiritually. not physically.
What makes Jesus 100% human?
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Now tell me how is the soul and spirit of Christ distinct from the Holy Spirit or Father?
Christ has a complete human nature. He is a man. The Son is not the Father. Christ, having a human nature has a human will, mind, spirit, soul, etc etc
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Was God a person before the incarnation?[/B]Jason seems to think so, mentioning "His divine person". This fits his first description of person, "immaterial conscious substance, a personality". His distinguishing "person" and "human nature" makes sense. Woof.
And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. (and we beheld his
glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.
For the law was given by Moses. but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
You didn't ask "is the person of the son distinct from the Holy Spirit", but my answer is they are the same person. By "person" see earlier post where I quote Jason Dulle
That is a contradiction. I asked you some questions earlier but you never responded, so Im going to add another and hope you answer this one along with others. Define "nature"
As I said eariler, the Son is not a body. The Son is a person WITH a body and a human nature.Also your analogy, If I am understanding it, combines the human nature with the divine nature to form a new nature. That is called Monophysite. The Divine flesh advocates have a similiar view
So you think a body has a mind, heart, emotion, conscience and will? no, those are soul
Is the Holy Spirit "Spirit"? Is the Father "Spirit"? yes
What makes Jesus 100% human?
Christ has a complete human nature. He is a man. The Son is not the Father. Christ, having a human nature has a human will, mind, spirit, soul, etc etc
Prax, I am totally enjoying this conversation, but am not understanding you completely.
Can YOU define "nature" and explain how is it different from "person"?
In what part of Christ did the divine nature reside?
In what part of Christ did the Holy Spirit reside?
Timmy, I found this quote by Jason Dulle discussing "person", it's a little complex and intellectual, but you seem like a smart collie so I think you might get something out of it. WOOF!
The "nature-praying" theory will not work because it falsely assumes that Christ's human nature is a separate human person. There can be no equivocation of a nature and a person, however. A nature is the generic substance that is common to all men, being that which makes humanity what it is; a nature is a set of essential characteristics or properties which mark off what sort of thing an individual is. A person, however, is immaterial conscious substance, a personality; a person is a particular individual who consists of a certain nature, or the particularization of a generic substance. A person is the concrete conscious self, the ego, defining who it is who is of a particular substance.13 It takes a concrete person (hypostasis) to actualize the generic nature (physis).14 In the case of Christ, the person who actualizes the human nature is God, not a separate human person. God came to exist as man by uniting human nature to His divine person, acquiring a human existence complete with all the properties inherent to human nature (human soul, spirit, mind, consciousness, etc.), not by assuming a human person. Because He assumed a human nature and not a human person Jesus' humanity is not an individual person in itself, but is human nature individualized (hypostasized) by the divine person.
Prax, I am totally enjoying this conversation, but am not understanding you completely.
Can YOU define "nature" and explain how is it different from "person"?
In what part of Christ did the divine nature reside?
In what part of Christ did the Holy Spirit reside?
For example, a human being is a person with a human nature.
Nature are those set of attributes that make a person whatever kind they are.
All things have nature., A rock has nature, but a rock is not a person. It's nature is "hard"..."Mineral"...etc
Persons are living, non- animal, intelligent beings.
God is a Person and He is a person with a Divine nature...that fact that He has a Divine nature or THE Divine nature, makes Him God.
Now, if that same Person had a human nature, He would be human.
The incarnation is the teaching that this Person, who is God, was incarnate or became a man by adding human nature to His own Person, so that He possessed both the Divine nature and the Human nature.
A human body, without a Person, is just a body nothing more
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Prax, I reread this slowly. Do you agree with Jason's definition of nature and person?
Myquestion is if Jesus is a divine person with a human nature, what part of Christ is divine nature? Where does this divine nature reside?
IF Jesus is a Person with a Divine nature and a human nature, what part of Him is Divine nature? The Divine nature. That's the answer. That is like asking what part of the donut is a donut.
Divine nature does not "reside". Nature is not a person. Nature is what one is. God is God because He has a God nature or a Divine nature. That means He has all the "stuff" that would make someone the Almighty God.
And, due to the incarnation, He also has all the "stuff" that would make someone human too.
That is why Oneness has taught that Jesus is both God and man
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Prax, I understand one divine person with 2 natures. What I am saying is that the holyspirit is the human and divine nature as the soul or person of Christ. How do you understand the holy spirit? You said the holy spirit is the same person as christ and I agree, but do you think the holy spirit is a separate force from the soul of Christ?
Prax, I understand one divine person with 2 natures. What I am saying is that the holyspirit is the human and divine nature as the soul or person of Christ. How do you understand the holy spirit? You said the holy spirit is the same person as christ and I agree, but do you think the holy spirit is a separate force from the soul of Christ?
Let's say "human nature" is a human body..just for example. You are saying the Holy Spirit is a human body. Does that make sense?
Let's say Holy Spirit refers to the Divine nature of God...again then you have a contradiction. Divine nature is not Human nature...those are two different things
Let's say "Holy Spirit" is a person...again you have a contradiction. Persons are not natures. Persons HAVE nature.
Simply,
Person=a WHO
nature=a WHAT.
BTW I didn't say the Holy Spirit is the same Person as Christ. But even if I did, you said you agree. So again the problem is you have no distinction in terms, no catagories. Nature is the same thing as Person, Person is the same thing as nature..well that is simply not the case. That is why I asked my questions and a little bit why I really don't understand what it is you believe.
It's impossible for me to answer your questions because you view a person and a nature as the same thing
Father and Spirit are not components. Father and Spirit are actual ways the Person of God reveals Himself
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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