Stuff Apostolics Like: Holy Magic Hair (sort of)

[Jeffrey]

Just peeked in on this post. WOWSERS! Over 100 responses and going. And they aren't all "amen"s either.. hahaha.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Is Mary divine, Sam?

I get the Lord's Prayer (as us non-Latin, heathen Protestant's refer to it)... Apostle's Creed? If it whets your whistle. I'm not much into praying to creeds myself. There is beautiful language in this particular creed, so go for it. But this prayer, is asking a dead saint to intercede on our behalf?? And it implies her Divinity?

Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

I'm glad you posted the prayer Jeffery. I've never actually read it as I should have. In fact I don't see anything that is contradictory to Christianity in what it says. Of course I can understand why some would object to asking a dead person to pray for you. But then again, if those in heaven can look down upon us and see and hear us then I can't see that objection being very strong.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I'm glad you posted the prayer Jeffery. I've never actually read it as I should have. In fact I don't see anything that is contradictory to Christianity in what it says. Of course I can understand why some would object to asking a dead person to pray for you. But then again, if those in heaven can look down upon us and see and hear us then I can't see that objection being very strong.

And she's not dead, really. Is she? Death is defeated! She has eternal life! Right?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Timmy

And she's not dead, really. Is she? Death is defeated! She has eternal life! Right?

yep!

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I'm glad you posted the prayer Jeffery. I've never actually read it as I should have. In fact I don't see anything that is contradictory to Christianity in what it says. Of course I can understand why some would object to asking a dead person to pray for you. But then again, if those in heaven can look down upon us and see and hear us then I can't see that objection being very strong.

To each his own opinion I guess

Personally, I don't find praying a prayer to Mary to be in sync with Christianity. If those in heaven can see us and look down on us, does not mean we start praying to them. We have one mediator between God and man. We have one Savior. We worship one God.

If people want to start a worship club with their favorite apostle/saint/elder, I definitely believe it's not within the framework of what Jesus established. It's back to religion of old.

Hail Jesus!

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

To each his own opinion I guess

Personally, I don't find praying a prayer to Mary to be in sync with Christianity. If those in heaven can see us and look down on us, does not mean we start praying to them. We have one mediator between God and man. We have one Savior. We worship one God.

If people want to start a worship club with their favorite apostle/saint/elder, I definitely believe it's not within the framework of what Jesus established. It's back to religion of old.

Hail Jesus!

Is it OK to ask other people to pray for you?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Is it OK to ask other people to pray for you?

Sure it is. And we ought to.


Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.


That's not me asking someone to pray for me. That's worshipping someone, who seems to be given Divine status as "mother of God." If someone comes up to me and asks for prayer by falling on their knees and "hailing" me as a Son of God, I will tell them to get up off their face, and let's go for a walk and talk about Jesus.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

To each his own opinion I guess

Personally, I don't find praying a prayer to Mary to be in sync with Christianity. If those in heaven can see us and look down on us, does not mean we start praying to them. We have one mediator between God and man. We have one Savior. We worship one God.

If people want to start a worship club with their favorite apostle/saint/elder, I definitely believe it's not within the framework of what Jesus established. It's back to religion of old.

Hail Jesus!

Where is the worship of Mary in the prayer? Full of grace? Mother of God? Wasn't she factually both both by being the Mother of Jesus?

Jesus established a framework for his followers to help each other. Jesus established a framework for his followers to ask both God and each other for help when they need it. How is asking one of his followers for her prayers contrary to Christianity?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Where is the worship of Mary in the prayer? Full of grace? Mother of God? Wasn't she factually both both by being the Mother of Jesus?

Jesus established a framework for his followers to help each other. Jesus established a framework for his followers to ask both God and each other for help when they need it. How is asking one of his followers for her prayers contrary to Christianity?

She was the mother of a man child, called Jesus. She has no Divine involvement with Jesus, as the Son of God. None. This is Mariology. In fact, Catholics literally believe Mary was "filled with grace" at the moment of conception and that she was somehow preserved from any stain of sin (she lived a perfect life). (Of course the Original Sin argument will saved later for those Finny followers like TL and Blume).

Like Luther, I believe there is a blurred line between high admiration of the grace of God wherever it is seen in a human, and religious service given to another creature. I believe the RCC practice of celebrating saints' days and making intercessory requests to them to be idolatry.

And to be real, this prayer is most often used in the middle of a religious service, with Rosary beads in hand. It is said three times a day by devoted Catholics. It is a prayer TO Mary, not a petition to Mary, which I find odd as well. I will search for examples of mortals praying to other mortals that are no longer with us, for intercessory purposes in the Story of God. I'll see what I can find.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

To each his own opinion I guess

Personally, I don't find praying a prayer to Mary to be in sync with Christianity. If those in heaven can see us and look down on us, does not mean we start praying to them. We have one mediator between God and man. We have one Savior. We worship one God.

If people want to start a worship club with their favorite apostle/saint/elder, I definitely believe it's not within the framework of what Jesus established. It's back to religion of old.

Hail Jesus!

There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus 1 Timothy 5

Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and no man comes to the Father but by Him John 14:6

This man (Jesus), because He continueth forever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore He is able to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them. Hebrews 7:24-25

However, just as we might ask some one here on earth to pray for us or with us, some believe that we can also ask some one in heaven to pray for us or with us. They call this the intercession of the saints. Actually, they do not pray to a saint in heaven (although that is what some times actually happens) they ask the saint to pray for them or intercede for them.