You're Invited - 80th General Assembly ECOC

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

MY friend I was not condradicting you and just saying what I knew from their history they definitely taught sanctification was the second definite work of grace whether it is in the bylaws or not. Ms. Pierce taught it and thise preachers I met years ago. I asked the question if they still did?
Jerry Hayes was over the Bible School at Huntsville, Al. this was better than 20 years ago. I met several of those preachers better than 40 years ago(how old are you?) and yes it was clearly taught among them. Since it is such an oddity among Oneness folks it stood out like poop in a punch bowl. You are new to the group and it is possible they no longer teach it. If I have offended you it was not intentional I apologize. Several years ago I had a home mission work between Lebanon and Murfreesboro and some of their saints visited us on ocassion and in their testimonies they testified about their sanctification experience I explained the way more perfectly to them and they did not return.

Could you relate what they said? thanks

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Bro. Phelps I asked him early on is they still taught this? I KNOW they did at one time I knew Ms. Painted face Pierce and some of her minions and yes they taught sanctification second definite works I wasn't talking to a book but to them. Those are the facts. My friend here is new in the group and the group may no longer teach this false doctrine they taught for decades. Good.

I'm just messing with you, Elder.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

MY friend I was not condradicting you and just saying what I knew from their history they definitely taught sanctification was the second definite work of grace whether it is in the bylaws or not. Ms. Pierce taught it and thise preachers I met years ago. I asked the question if they still did?
Jerry Hayes was over the Bible School at Huntsville, Al. this was better than 20 years ago. I met several of those preachers better than 40 years ago(how old are you?) and yes it was clearly taught among them. Since it is such an oddity among Oneness folks it stood out like poop in a punch bowl. You are new to the group and it is possible they no longer teach it. If I have offended you it was not intentional I apologize. Several years ago I had a home mission work between Lebanon and Murfreesboro and some of their saints visited us on ocassion and in their testimonies they testified about their sanctification experience I explained the way more perfectly to them and they did not return.

Brother.. you said the "organization taught"... that doesn't mean bylaws (bylaws have nothing to do with doctrine, but to do with church polity), it means Articles of Faith, Doctrinal Commitments, Practical Commitments. I can only take you at the words you posted, and you said the orginazation taught it. It was a very prominent teaching yes, but never an organization teaching. The Founding Overseer (Sister Pierce) did teach it, but it wasn't an official organization teaching... and that is a huge difference brother.

There was a Bible School yes.. but never a Bible College... again, big difference. I just try to be very careful with words and make sure we present accurate pictures of the truth... and the fact is that though it was a very prominent teaching... it wasn't an official doctrine of the Emmanuel churches.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Could you relate what they said? thanks

If you do, please do so in another thread... would be more appropriate to start a new thread on the topic of Sanctification as a second definate work of grace than to go off topic from this thread... please. I just wanted to invite folks out to the meetings next week, and would like to keep that the topic of this thread if at all possible... thanks.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

If you do, please do so in another thread... would be more appropriate to start a new thread on the topic of Sanctification as a second definate work of grace than to go off topic from this thread... please. I just wanted to invite folks out to the meetings next week, and would like to keep that the topic of this thread if at all possible... thanks.

I apologize Bro. I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

[Bro. Robbins]

No worries.. just hoping anyone nearby will come see us Labor Day week... expecting a great move of God!!!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

... Some interesting information about us....

- We have more women pastors within our organization per capita than any other Oneness organization in the world. Our founding Overseer was actually a lady.
- We have a mix between denomination churches, as well as affiliate churches. There are some churches within the org, that the pastor is apppointed by the Presiding Bishop, the property is owned by the org, any loans for building, etc is under written by the denom, and there are various rights and privileges and safety nets for those churches. But we also have affiliate churches where the pastor holds credentials with us, is able to vote in the International General Assembly, but the church is autonomous in every way.
- We are in KY, TN, MS and AL in the United States, but are in almost a dozen nations, with around 180 churches in Honduras alone. Those are affiliate churches, under a national bishop.
- Our churches range in regards to "the standards". There are churches that you will go into, and no hair cut, no jewelry, the men would never think of wearing shorts or tank tops, etc. And then there are other churches, like the one I am a member of (the headquarters church), and it looks like a baptist church in some ways. 90% of that congregation's ladies have shorter hair, wear make-up and have no issue with jewlery. Each church has it's own culture regarding the standards, and those are items left between that congregation and the pastor in how they "live out" sanctification and lifestyle holiness.
- I am the youngest minister within our organization, and the only Evangelist that we have right now. We have extremely aging congregations, and aging pastors....we are actually in a shortage of ministers right now.
- I minister in all our churches, I don't care what their stand on the standards is... as an evangelist, it's not my place to preach on "lifestyle holiness" issues anyway, that's not my role when helping our churches. When I teach in my local church even, that's not my place... I'm not the pastor.
- The organization experienced a two splits over it's history, the major one being when the pastor of the headquarters church in the 80's was found guilty of murder, embezzlement of funds, and arson of the church. The org is just now beginning to rise above that pain and horror they went through.


Hope that answers your question. It's no secret to our pastors and churches that I'm a conservative man, but I know my place, and what my role is within these churches and this organization. They respect me for my stand, and I respect them for where they are in the Lord... and it really does work for us... honestly, quite beautifully....

At General Assembly in September, you'll see ultra conservatives hugging and loving on those some would consider liberal... shouting together, worshipping together, and doing a work together for the kingdom. That's why I'm a part of this group of great and wonderful folks.

It is refreshing to me to see that kind of openness and tolerance among ministers, churches, and people. I wish more of us were like that.

[Sam]

Many years ago (late 1950's or early 1960's) I used to receive a magazine from an organization in Tennessee. The leader was naned Pierce (I think the first name was Nina). I don't remember how they got my name and just when I stopped getting the magazine. Of course I don't have any copies of it to check this out now. If I remember correctly the leader wore makeup and the magazine spoke of salvation, sanctification, and the Holy Ghost Baptism. I wonder if this is the same organization? I think they used the term Eldress for lady ministers. I just figured they believed in sanctification as a second work of grace while other OP groups did not --like the Church of God does and the Assemblies of God does not. Not long ago I was wondering if this organization still existed.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by Sam

Many years ago (late 1950's or early 1960's) I used to receive a magazine from an organization in Tennessee. The leader was naned Pierce (I think the first name was Nina). I don't remember how they got my name and just when I stopped getting the magazine. Of course I don't have any copies of it to check this out now. If I remember correctly the leader wore makeup and the magazine spoke of salvation, sanctification, and the Holy Ghost Baptism. I wonder if this is the same organization? I think they used the term Eldress for lady ministers. I just figured they believed in sanctification as a second work of grace while other OP groups did not --like the Church of God does and the Assemblies of God does not. Not long ago I was wondering if this organization still existed.

That is this same organization... and yes it was a major teaching in those days, but never in the Articles of Faith, Doctrinal Commitments, or Practical Commitments. There are other teachings like that as well, like the End Times. The Articles of Faith merely state that we believe in a physcial return of the Lord and the end of time, but there is room in our organization for pre trib, post, mid, and even some amillenials.

Sister Pierce did not preach the Lifestyle Holiness. Our Articles of Faith state that Holiness is God's standard of living for all, but does not give a list of do's and don'ts. We have some former UPC preachers, former ALJC, etc... therefore, our organization looks a lot different today than it did when Sister Pierce was alive, and much of that is a good thing.

Also, something many of you will find interesting. Though we were founding by a woman, and have many women pastors today, including the wife of our Bishop Pastors a small church.... our Bishop teaches as I do, that it was never intended that women pastor... but women have had to because men wouldn't step up and do what was needed. He like I, believe in women preachers, but don't believe God ever intended for women pastors.

That is a very odd thing for an Overseer to believe when the original founder (that he grew up under) was a woman and his own wife pastors.

The organization has changed much since Sister Pierce was alive.... Thank God.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

Bishop teaches as I do, that it was never intended that women pastor... but women have had to because men wouldn't step up and do what was needed.

Yep