I thought apostolics believed Jesus is the Father?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I chose my words carefully. Jesus is the Father. The Son is not the Father. I would think apostolics would know that distinction, as per the issue at hand.

I can't tell you how many "Apostolics" I run into that seem to describe two persons, the Father and the Son. The Father is God and the Son is just a man...they swear by Bernards books

Then there are those that have two somethings...the Father is Spirit and the Son is just a skin suit God puts on


And yes I have run into those that swear the Father is the Son or the Son is the Father.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

For all this talk about Jesus BEING the Father, I find it interesting that the clear identity that Jesus Christ Himself embraced is that of the Son.

"You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God."

"Flesh and blood has not revealed this unto you..."

"Upon this Rock I will build my church..."

What rock? The rock of the identity of Jesus Christ as the Son of the Living God.

So then Jesus is not God, right?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I can't tell you how many "Apostolics" I run into that seem to describe two persons, the Father and the Son. The Father is God and the Son is just a man...they swear by Bernards books

Then there are those that have two somethings...the Father is Spirit and the Son is just a skin suit God puts on


And yes I have run into those that swear the Father is the Son or the Son is the Father.

Ignorance abounds. Wow.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So then Jesus is not God, right?

Wrong.

"Before Abraham was, I AM."

[Esaias]

But why are so many people claiming to be Oneness who deny the very foundation core concept of Oneness?

Makes my head spin. Why don't they call themselves "JesusisnotGodians"?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

But why are so many people claiming to be Oneness who deny the very foundation core concept of Oneness?

Makes my head spin. Why don't they call themselves "JesusisnotGodians"?

They don't know what they're talking about. Seriously.

[randyabrown]

Originally Posted by randyabrown View Post
There are too many verses that identify the deity of Jesus as Jehovah. Unless you believe in more than one Jehovah there's no way Jesus is not the Father.

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

If that was really true, then the vast majority Christian history would be filled with people who shared the Oneness Pentecostal view of Christ.

According to Scripture it's really true:

Jehovah - Almighty Genesis 17:1

Jesus - Almighty Revelation 1:8

Jehovah - I AM Exodus 3:14-16

Jesus - I am John 8:58

Jehovah - Rock Psalm 18:2; 28:1

Jesus - Rock I Corinthians 10:4

Jehovah - Horn of Salvation Psalm 18:2

Jesus - Horn of Salvation Luke 1:69

Jehovah - Good Shepherd Psalm 23:1; Isaiah 40:10-11

Jesus - Good Shepherd, John 10:11; Great Shepherd Hebrews 13:20; Chief Shepherd I Peter 5:4

Jehovah - King of Glory Psalm 24:7-10

Jesus - Lord of Glory I Corinthians 2:8

Jehovah - Light Psalm 27:1; Isaiah 60:19

Jesus - Light John 1:4-9; John 8:12; Revelation 21:23

Jehovah - Salvation Psalm 27:1; Isaiah 12:2

Jesus - Only Salvation Acts 4:10-12

Jehovah - Lord of lords Psalm 136:3

Jesus - Lord of lords Revelation 19:16

Jehovah - Holy One Isaiah 12:6

Jesus - Holy One Acts 2:27

Jehovah - Lawgiver Isaiah 33:22

Jesus - Testator of the First Testament (the Law) Hebrews 9:14-17

Jehovah - Judge Isaiah 33:22; Acts 10:42

Jesus - Judge Micah 5:1

Jehovah - First and Last Isaiah 41:4; 44:6; 48:12

Jesus - Alpha and Omega, Beginning and Ending, First and Last Revelation 1:8, 22:13

Jehovah - Only Savior Isaiah 43:11; 45:21; 60:16

Jesus - Savior Titus 2:13; 3:6

Jehovah - Giver Spiritual Water of Isaiah 44:3; 55:1

Jesus - Giver of Living Water John 4:10-14; 7:38-39

Jehovah - King of Israel Isaiah 44:6

Jesus - King of Israel, King of kings John 1:49; Revelation 19:6

Jehovah - Only Creator Isaiah 44:24; 45:8; 48:13

Jesus - Creator of Everything John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:10;

Jehovah - Only Just God Isaiah 45:21

Jesus - Just One Acts 7:52

Jehovah - Redeemer Isaiah 54:5; 60:16

Jesus - Redeemer Galatians 3:13, Revelation 5:9

[Sean]

The very thing that "qualifies" Jesus as the Father, is the indwelling fullness of the Father in His human son(Jesus).

[Sean]

Colossians 2:9

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

[Sean]

The indwelling Father in the body of His human son, makes the son....omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent now.