Are all Catholics lost?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

That is the problem with religion and MAN MADE DOCTRINE. It is hard to look someone in the eye and say, what I used to believe was not true. Especially when you defended it so belligerently in past. In a world of such enlightenment, where we are sending men into space, harnessing the power of electricity, making leaps and bounds in the field of medicine, that there are subcultures, that believe wearing certain clothing, hair styles, or jewelry will send a person to hell.

Paul tells us we are complete in Christ, not vain deceit, traditions, or philosophy of men. Yet so many Christians are so hung up on these that they cannot see the forest for the trees. IMO these same people would deny Christ if he came to earth today and taught the same things he taught 2000 years ago. Because his teaching today would go against their philosophy and traditions just as it did 2000 years ago.

Everybody likes to think THEIR version of faith is God's version. Both the meanies, and the sweeties. And God will win in the end, thankfully, and all of us will be judged by him, not each other. Both the meanies, and the sweeties, and the wanna be in betweenies.

[shazeep]

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

And i am sorry, but it is strictly Mike's fantasy that i have denied the cross in any form, that is strictly a means to deflect from his problem.

...From the guy who says muslims who believe the Koran when it says Jesus DID NOT DIE ON THE CROSS can be saved if they keep the golden rule.

[shazeep]

more deflection.
i said they might be, i do not know, and you don't either. People say a lot of things, and things said have different contexts in different cultures, and we can hardly envision the context in which the Qur'an was written, during the time of the RCC Inquisition etc.

Whether they are lost or not has no bearing upon whether you are sinning or not, when you confidently and with no humility bark that they are lost, and although any first day Christian understands that pointing out someone from a different understanding and culture as lost is not kind, nor loving, and is directly contravened by Scripture in more than one place, these passages are nullified by you, as are most or all of Christ's Word.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

more deflection.
i said they might be, i do not know, and you don't either. People say a lot of things, and things said have different contexts in different cultures, and we can hardly envision the context in which the Qur'an was written, during the time of the RCC Inquisition etc.

Whether they are lost or not has no bearing upon whether you are sinning or not, when you confidently and with no humility bark that they are lost, and although any first day Christian understands that pointing out someone from a different understanding and culture as lost is not kind, nor loving, and is directly contravened by Scripture in more than one place, these passages are nullified by you, as are most or all of Christ's Word.

...From the guy who says muslims who believe the Koran when it says Jesus DID NOT DIE ON THE CROSS can be saved if they keep the golden rule.

[shazeep]

so now you are in rant mode, repeatedly posting the same thing, in order to deflect from your sin. ok.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

so now you are in rant mode, repeatedly posting the same thing, in order to deflect from your sin. ok.

I think you honestly believe you are not deflecting the issue from the blatant error you espouse that says people who do not believe Jesus DIED ON THE CROSS can be saved if they keep the golden rule, as an example of how you deny the cross.

[shazeep]

well, i think you have gone back to Muslims to enlist more people to your defense, since the Catholics thing was a fail, even thought he concept is the same. It doesn't matter what either of us thinks, Mr B.

I am not a pastor, and i don't teach others to discount a verbal acceptance of the cross and embrace the Golden Rule, i merely suggest that Christ may have, and that the two might be conflated in a way that is not immediately apparent, but makes complete spiritual sense, and to go read it for yourself. It was merely an attempt to nicely allow you to recognize your sin for yourself, that you have blown up out of all proportion.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, i think you have gone back to Muslims to enlist more people to your defense, since the Catholics thing was a fail, even thought he concept is the same. It doesn't matter what either of us thinks, Mr B.

I am not a pastor, and i don't teach others to discount a verbal acceptance of the cross and embrace the Golden Rule, i merely suggest that Christ may have, and go read it for yourself. It was merely an attempt to nicely allow you to recognize your sin for yourself, that you have blown up out of all proportion.

Shazeep, have you seen me make a statement in this entire thread that catholics are lost?

Why do you think that is? Did you read my repeated statements as follows:

"It's not as simple as that."

"It's not PEOPLE that are the issue. It is DOCTRINE. BELIEF. And those who hold BELIEFS contrary to the word are in violation of salvation."

" It's not what you accuse us of presenting.... "all catholics are lost." It's rather "Believe what the word says.""

"This entire thread should not be entitled "Are all Catholics lost?" because that is not the point of concern. It should be entitled "Are all who disbelieve the Bible lost?" or "Are all who have a misinterpretation of the bible lost?""

Why do you think I stressed that over and over?

You expect me to believe what you said here, when you said, " i don't teach others to discount a verbal acceptance of the cross and embrace the Golden Rule, i merely suggest that Christ may have," when you refuse to believe what I said in my responses as quoted above?

Why did you not vote on the poll I listed?

You apply all these caveats for yourself, but refuse to hear what others say in the same vein about themselves.

I'm sorry, but all your accusations of sin and whatever are resounding nothingness when you fail to apply the courtesy of accepting what a person claims as their intentions when you ignore it all, and insist your intentions are being ignored.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You expect me to believe what you said here, when you said, " i don't teach others to discount a verbal acceptance of the cross and embrace the Golden Rule, i merely suggest that Christ may have," when you refuse to believe what I said in my responses as quoted above?

Why did you not vote on the poll I listed?

You apply all these caveats for yourself, but refuse to hear what others say in the same vein about themselves.

I'm sorry, but all your accusations of sin and whatever are resounding nothingness when you fail to apply the courtesy of accepting what a person claims as their intentions when you ignore it all, and insist your intentions are being ignored.
__________________

And the funny thing I BELIEVE YOU when you say you merely suggested that. You never emphasized that before.

Knowing you REFUSE to believe what I say about my intentions, I BELIEVE WHAT YOU SAY because I wish you would do that for me.

How's that for the golden rule? Why do you not believe me when I explain my intentions?

I teach people that we MUST obey the golden rule, but not save us. TO STAY SAVED.

And you say I teach we don't have to.

I teach it's MORE than verbal confession, but BELIEF IN THE HEART that God sees and demands, and you continue to say I only require verbal confession.

I believe what you say about your intentions, but you don't believe me.

Where's the golden rule now?