I am NOT Old Paths but I will answer for myself there are boundaries of separation that no I will not fellowship with. I would not fellowship with a church that allows their women to cut their hair for example. I would preach for them with the understanding I was at liberty to preach against women cutting their hair. That is one example fire away.
No firing here, Elder, you've always been honest and forthright with your beliefs and opinions!
I was just surprised to see OP's response, because I was quite sure there was more than just Acts 2:38 that dictated the churches with whom he fellowships.
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
Put an old time Pentecostal man in a room with a bunch of wall street CEOs and see who stands out....the guy with the rolex? No he's one of the old time preachers. They guy driving an expensive caddy? No he's one of the old time preachers too
I have not seen any of this here Prax. Course we have preacher's that preach Jesus. Wear Timex watches if they have one. And drive pick-up trucks.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
HO I just read you sig line and thought it appropriate for this thread.
"Surely for a Christian, stooping to someone else's level should only be done to give them a hand up and not to push their head down in the mud!
--RevDDW"
IMO--this thread has been very self serving for some. It's not here to uplift, encourage or offer any kind of Christian support. It's only purpose to point at those who disagree with them, laugh and tell them they are going to hell.
I almost get a feeling it's providing some kind of entertainment, "Let's provoke a liberal today and mock them."
Not every conservative has posted this way, some have offered content while some just plain contempt.
Talk about sad, if anything I think sort of attitude is so far from Christ and his purpose for the Church in general- it would come under following another gospel, more than the example of not following standards is following another gospel.
Just my little opinion
Have a nice day!
This is one of the reasons why I'm out of the UPC and won't belong to such a church again.
In my area, UPC churches are on every block. Most of them are wonderful people with terrific pastors...but there's the 'you aren't saved unless you...' issue that I refuse to partake of any longer.
I attended a UPC church last night where my sister attends. The pastor preached a wonderful message about being a voice for God's vision. He also stated that nobody can come to God except the Father call them, yet we drag people to God.
He further stated that it's God's job to 'clean people up' according to His vision for those people, and how we aren't to be making ten year olds into thirty year olds (speaking about new converts and how quick the church is to make them into seasoned saints).
He had a great message. Sadly, I know his stance on the real issue at hand, knowing that he's UPC, and that, in his eyes and the eyes of others, when it comes down to it, I'm not saved after all.
That saddens me.
But he did say one thing I liked.
"I'd rather people come to church and continue smoking, drinking, cursing, and doing all kinds of sin than not come to church and doing those things. As long as they come to church, there's hope."
Amen.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
I skipped a few pages, but if this has already been covered, oh well!!
While I agree that there have been more pharisaic actions in the apostolic movement than there need be, you can't forget about the truth that is forever settled in the Word of God. You say you can't find the scriptures to back it up, but all you have to do is actually read the bible & you'll have no trouble finding the basis of what so many of us stand for...or have stood for & have decided that it was no longer important.
I have seen far too often people being hurt & wounded, like the woman caught in adultery, cast down by those holier than thou nay sayers that only are there to make themselves feel closer to God by making you feel that you are nothing more than a no good sinner. That mentality is wrong...always has been & always will be. That is not Christ like & those people are just as bad as the sinner.
However, you cannot let bad experiences overrule the unwavering truth. While I do not agree with some super strict standards that have honestly come from man, not God, You cannot tell me that the fundamental apostolic doctrine & standards are unnecessary. You cannot take out sections of the bible & act like they are not there...just like you cannot ADD to it as some would like. The truths that the apostals preached are the same that we have to live by today, like it or not.
Even if I weren't 100% sure of the standards that I will never back down on (oneness doctrine, holiness standards such as no pants on woman & long hair) I would still rather do it & be content with the life I live rather than being sorry that I didn't after I go into eternity.
Everyone has to judge for themselves, that's what happen when we were given the right to choose. Only one day we'll know if it were truly necessary. For now, I'm thankful that I have been able to search out the truth for myself & stand firm in the knowledge that I have found a deep relationship with God that causes me to WANT to be different from the world. While I may not be ultra conservative or maybe even conservative in the eyes of some, I know that I am living a bible based life & I have always been so "proud" (for lack of a better term) when people know that my husband is a minister & that I am a Christian. You can't tell with some of the bad attitudes that some pentecostals have, but those who are truly living a Christ like life have no trouble of sharing their testimony without speaking a word.
My philosophy is love them to Jesus & let him do the rest.
I know people like to argue about these verses & there have been so many "thoughts" on it & I know that there are countless others that back up truth.
13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
1 Timothy 2:8-10 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
8I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1 Peter 3:1-5 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
1 Peter 3
1Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
Deuteronomy 22:5 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
5The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
AMEN!!!!!!!
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
I am NOT Old Paths but I will answer for myself there are boundaries of separation that no I will not fellowship with. I would not fellowship with a church that allows their women to cut their hair for example. I would preach for them with the understanding I was at liberty to preach against women cutting their hair. That is one example fire away.
This is a big part of the problem I have with the "Old Time Pentecost" way of thinking. The pastor is not there to give people permission or not give them permission to do or not do anything whatsoever. The pastor ain't yer daddy. Go ahead. Fire away. Tell me how rebellious I am, yada, yada.
I skipped a few pages, but if this has already been covered, oh well!!
While I agree that there have been more pharisaic actions in the apostolic movement than there need be, you can't forget about the truth that is forever settled in the Word of God. You say you can't find the scriptures to back it up, but all you have to do is actually read the bible & you'll have no trouble finding the basis of what so many of us stand for...or have stood for & have decided that it was no longer important.
I have seen far too often people being hurt & wounded, like the woman caught in adultery, cast down by those holier than thou nay sayers that only are there to make themselves feel closer to God by making you feel that you are nothing more than a no good sinner. That mentality is wrong...always has been & always will be. That is not Christ like & those people are just as bad as the sinner.
However, you cannot let bad experiences overrule the unwavering truth. While I do not agree with some super strict standards that have honestly come from man, not God, You cannot tell me that the fundamental apostolic doctrine & standards are unnecessary. You cannot take out sections of the bible & act like they are not there...just like you cannot ADD to it as some would like. The truths that the apostals preached are the same that we have to live by today, like it or not.
Even if I weren't 100% sure of the standards that I will never back down on (oneness doctrine, holiness standards such as no pants on woman & long hair) I would still rather do it & be content with the life I live rather than being sorry that I didn't after I go into eternity.
Everyone has to judge for themselves, that's what happen when we were given the right to choose. Only one day we'll know if it were truly necessary. For now, I'm thankful that I have been able to search out the truth for myself & stand firm in the knowledge that I have found a deep relationship with God that causes me to WANT to be different from the world. While I may not be ultra conservative or maybe even conservative in the eyes of some, I know that I am living a bible based life & I have always been so "proud" (for lack of a better term) when people know that my husband is a minister & that I am a Christian. You can't tell with some of the bad attitudes that some pentecostals have, but those who are truly living a Christ like life have no trouble of sharing their testimony without speaking a word.
My philosophy is love them to Jesus & let him do the rest.
I know people like to argue about these verses & there have been so many "thoughts" on it & I know that there are countless others that back up truth.
I'll take old time truth to none any day! 1 Corinthians 11:13-15 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
1 Timothy 2:8-10 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
8I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1 Peter 3:1-5 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
1 Peter 3
1Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
Deuteronomy 22:5 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
5The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
This is one of the reasons why I'm out of the UPC and won't belong to such a church again.
In my area, UPC churches are on every block. Most of them are wonderful people with terrific pastors...but there's the 'you aren't saved unless you...' issue that I refuse to partake of any longer.
I attended a UPC church last night where my sister attends. The pastor preached a wonderful message about being a voice for God's vision. He also stated that nobody can come to God except the Father call them, yet we drag people to God.
He further stated that it's God's job to 'clean people up' according to His vision for those people, and how we aren't to be making ten year olds into thirty year olds (speaking about new converts and how quick the church is to make them into seasoned saints).
He had a great message. Sadly, I know his stance on the real issue at hand, knowing that he's UPC, and that, in his eyes and the eyes of others, when it comes down to it, I'm not saved after all.
That saddens me.
But he did say one thing I liked.
"I'd rather people come to church and continue smoking, drinking, cursing, and doing all kinds of sin than not come to church and doing those things. As long as they come to church, there's hope."
Amen.
Maybe you need to give this man a chance, HO. You seem to like what he had to say.
Are we not judged by the company we keep?
The bible says that we are to be of one mind and not to be unequally yoked together. One org. preacher teaches saved at repentance the other save only after obedience to acts 2:38 yet they are yoked together by the liscens in their pocket. They call one another brother.
If you fellowship the one aren't you on a slippery slope? Clearly the man you preached for is yoked to a doctrine that you say is false.
Stretcccccccccccccccccccccch!
It may come as surprise to you that everyone in the org has not gone liberal and still hold to Bible principles.
I live in a predominately Demoractic county, does that make me a lover of Hillary.
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