yes, but it isn't going to change their sentence on judgement day.
A sentence of eternal torment? Because He's so holy? Well, thank goodness I'm not that holy -- I've never punished anyone I loved that severely. Evil earthly father that I am.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I find it sad that people would make that comparison. I do agree with holiness standards and would possibly be considered even more strict personally (my personal convictions)than most. However, I will agree that not everyone has to line up to my line, but I do believe that there are principles in Scripture that are so specific as to not allow much if any compromise. Jewelry, cut or uncut hair (depending on male of female), types of clothing, and certain other activities are all in that category. In some of these cases, I have known pastors that met what could be called the 'baseline'.
My whole point is this, I have heard standards preached with enthusiasm, and I have heard them preached with wrong spirits. However, that has never had an affect on whether or not they were necessary. I have also never heard in my memory any of the preachers who held a strong line say anything about being glad that people who were not lined up were going to Hell. I have heard many of them say tha they would rather hear, 'Well done, my good and faithful servant. You did not have to take that high of a stand", rather than hear, "I am sorry, but you set your sights to low, and you missed the mark of my holiness, I never knew you."
It is to the breaking our hearts to see immorality and immodesty, and to our frustration to see others compromise on those issues. We hate no man, but our hearts break for all.
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I am an Apostolic Pentecostal. Apostolic in teaching, and Pentecostal in experience.
I've been to a lot of oneness churches in my life. Many of them were what you would call UC.
I have never heard it preached that wearing jewelry or make up sends you to hell.
I am sure that it happens, but it is not as common as some here seem to believe.
Awwwww..you went and rained on his parade
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
What disturbs me the most about Westboro, and holiness zealots, is their absolute glee at the thought that someone is wrong, or is going to get punished, or is headed for Hell.
There's no love in their message, only hate.
I agree with you here, but, must say I don't think I have ever heard it preached jewely sends you to hell...
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
It's no different than if you as a male grew facial hair. If you then attended these same UC churches, you'd be treated as a permanent "visitor".
So what is the difference between being implicitly condemned for outerwear or being verbally lambasted? Either way, it's still their idea of "holiness or hell".
Well, I think there is a difference (nevermind the fact that preaching against beards is a major major leap IMO). When I attend the Lutheran Church I cannot partake inthe Lords Supper. I could conclude they must believe I am outside the body of Christ - but that is not entirely true. They are simply trying to practice what they believe to be the teaching of scripture and their obligation to the same.
This can also be said about thosewho adhere to a hardline conservative dress code. While I don't always fully agree, I do understand why they teach it - and most do indeed have bat intentions.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
I am of the opinion that women who cut their hair are not morally or scripturally wrong. It should be their conviction and or their preference. Some women absolutely cannot deal with long long hair. Sometimes the weight of the hair gives neck and scalp pain. When i worked in the hospital, much of my work involved blood, guts and spit/sputum coughing people who had serious diseases like AiDS, Hepatitis, tuberculosis. I had to wash my hair everyday after I worked because much of body fluids were sprayed by coughing or busted vessels, bloody traffic accidents and the likewise. I could not go to bed knowing that most every time I had to work a bloody code blue, I got sprayed, or coughed on by a very sick patient who could not help themselves. Most pentecostal women know how long it takes to wash, dry and fix hair. And my workday was long...a 12 hour shift so between work, husband, home and kids, I had little time for preening.
But when one goes to the lengths of defining how long (dress)should be long, or how short (the dress) is short, how low (the blouse) is low, and holding women to it...or else... is another story.
I am also of the opinion that women who are sincere and receive the Holy Ghost are going to feel inwardly a conviction of how long their dress should be. They will not need a man to tell them any of the above. The Holy Spirit convicts and God writes His laws into our hearts.
Personally, I like my dresses mid calf and flowing, not tight to my hips. Ankle dresses trip me. LOL. I do not think short sleeves is immodest. I believe Holy Ghost filled women will button their blouses up to where there is not a hint of cleavage showing. That to me is modesty.
Which is more harmful...a woman wearing slacks or a woman who sees another wear slacks then runs to the church to gossip about what she has seen?
Last edited by AreYouReady?; 11-21-2011 at 11:46 PM.
Back to the Westboro Weasels. People can put a stop to those goons nonsense if they want to. All they have to do is take a lesson from the Mississippi people who did not take kindly to their pathetic excuses to protest a beloved soldier.
Article below(and it did happen)
"As soon as we heard that Westboro was gonna’ be here, we didn't want that to happen," Zach Magee said. "I'm a firm believer in human rights, and I believe it should be a natural given human right to be able to bury your loved ones without negativity brought towards that,"
added McGee, who helped organize a counter protest via Facebook and other outlets.
According to various reports, the trouble started a day or two before the funeral when one Westboro zealot stopped at a Brandon gas station, starting “running his mouth” and – whammo - promptly got a sound Southern thumpin’.
I mean, the earlier protester got splashed with a liberal dose of ratta-tat-tat and was whipped pretty badly. Yet when the police arrived, nobody had seen a thing and all discounted such an incident had ever occurred.
In the meanwhile, patriots for many miles around arrived in droves to wave flags and cross their hearts as the funeral process made its way to the cemetery. Thousands lined the route. They were there, in part, to drown out any protesters’ cries but – wait – the people of Westboro and their gaudy signs never did show up.
Oh, there were signs aplenty, like “God loves Jason,” “Thank You” and “Semper Fi” but the taunts of the Westboro hatred were strangely missing.
To Marlee Merritt, 17, of Richland, the idea that Westboro would come so close to home was infuriating. "It really just (angers) me that they would put the family through that," Merritt said. "They don't need that stuff right now — they're dealing with enough."
So what must have happened? According to Merritt, “This is the Dirty South. We don’t play.”
A popular rumor is that when the news got out where the Westboro crowd was staying and, this some time shortly before the funeral, the strangest thing occurred. A vacant Rankin County car or pickup truck was mysteriously parked directly behind every car with a Kansas tag in the parking lot. I mean, they hemmed the visitors’ cars in, bumper-to-bumper.
Since all the wrecker companies around were “too busy” to lend a hand until after the funeral, the protesters were stranded. Further, according to the tales now being told, the few Westboro members that did get to the funeral were promptly hustled off to be asked what they knew about a crime they might have been involved in.
Yes, after thorough questioning, they were released but it was not – mind you – until the funeral had ended.
Jon Negri, a student at Southern Mississippi, said, "In a round about and direct sort of way, (Westboro) really just boosted the number of people here and support that the family got. Westboro Baptist Church was pretty positive today."
Zack McGee felt the same way. “I really think that was kind of the sole purpose … to keep them away."
"Mission accomplished," he added, nodding.
Ask Steve Epley if he believes holiness is part of the gospel. Ask any Oneness standards-keeping conservative if holiness is part of the gospel.
They will say yes. They will say that "without holiness no man will see God." They will say that you can't be saved without holiness, and that holiness includes no makeup or jewelry.
They believe wearing those things will send you to Hell.
And while you're at it.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Faith.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Love.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Deliverance.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Miracles.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in One God.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Mercy.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Baptism in Jesus Name.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Restoration.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Prayer.
Ask Bro. Epley if he preaches against lying.
Ask Bro. Epley if he preaches against stealing.
Ask Bro. Epley if he preaches against having a bad attitude.
Ask Bro. Epley if he preaches against cheating.
I am sure he would answer yes to all the above.
Quit acting like the Holiness preachers are just one-trick ponies.
Just because you found a few idiots along the way does not mean that Holiness preachers don't have a right to preach Holiness with Love and Conviction.
It takes the whole package to be saved.
You will not be saved without inward and outward holiness.
Just because somebody has more lines than you do, does not make them a pharisee.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Faith.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Love.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Deliverance.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Miracles.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in One God.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Mercy.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Baptism in Jesus Name.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Restoration.
Ask Bro. Epley if he believes in Prayer.
Ask Bro. Epley if he preaches against lying.
Ask Bro. Epley if he preaches against stealing.
Ask Bro. Epley if he preaches against having a bad attitude.
Ask Bro. Epley if he preaches against cheating.
I am sure he would answer yes to all the above.
Quit acting like the Holiness preachers are just one-trick ponies.
Just because you found a few idiots along the way does not mean that Holiness preachers don't have a right to preach Holiness with Love and Conviction.
It takes the whole package to be saved.
You will not be saved without inward and outward holiness.
Just because somebody has more lines than you do, does not make them a pharisee.
I had to laugh out loud on that one. You ought to hear some of them preach here. Wagging fingers, long bony noses, and beat-red faces, sweating all over the podium and platform just to get "the message" across.
And, the fact that they have "more lines" makes them just like the Catholics (and her offspring), some of the very people they are so well-known to bash and preach against. So much ritual, so little relationship.
Ritual doesn't disqualify relationship. There are MANY rituals we all take part in because we have relationships. Look at your marriage. How many things are done out of a ritual because you love your spouse?
They may be unnecessary, but they aren't out of a lack of relationship. Rather they typically are done because one does love their spouse and wishes to please them...even if they don't have to do siad things to please them.
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